Every Entrepreneur's Story is Unique: James Lang

Summary

In this episode of The Chris Project, host Christian Brim interviews James Lang, an entrepreneur with a diverse background in startups, freelancing, and agency work. James shares his unique journey, from dropping out of college to navigating the challenges of building and managing businesses. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the 'why' behind tasks, the significance of customer experience, and the complexities of managing teams and investor relations.

Takeaways

• Every entrepreneur's story is unique and valuable.
• Understanding the 'why' behind tasks can elevate your career.
• Freelancing can be a stepping stone to larger opportunities.
• Customer service must align with the sales experience.
• Managing up is crucial for effective leadership.
• Building a strong team culture is essential for success.
• Investor dynamics can significantly impact business operations.
• Navigating challenges requires adaptability and resilience.
• Exiting a company can be a pivotal moment in one's career.
• Continuous learning is key to personal and professional growth.

Feeling stuck in your business? Book a free call with Christian.

https://calendly.com/cbrim/30min

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:00.144)
there. you didn't hit record again. Okay, so let's just start with what what is Overland overlaying venture partners about?

James Lang (00:02.894)
No sweat.

James Lang (00:14.21)
Yeah, so I mentioned a moment ago that the last year after moving to Denver, I've been dealing with some health challenges. So building out your own company on your own is hard enough, but when you're also dealing with health challenges, that's tricky too. So I've been fortunate in the sense that I've been able to find and work with some amazing people who I've known for over a decade. know not only what they can do, but that they're trustworthy and that they're people that actually care versus people that just care about the paycheck on day one. And the paycheck's important.

can't minimize that. finding people that you can trust, finding people that actually have real knowledge versus theory is incredibly valuable. So what I've done is I've kind of gathered a group of us together. And so we have a VC side, which is something that we haven't really gone public about quite yet, an incubator side, which is something that we're also not as public about, our more front-facing side.

is in the consulting from an operational standpoint, a technology standpoint, and compliance standpoint for these small businesses. So the idea is how do we take all of the technology, the strategies, the know-how that exists in these Fortune 500 companies, and how do we bring that same information down the mountain, so to speak, to everyone else so that everybody's on a level playing field and has a shot at growing their business, and especially in these uncertain times technologically.

We want to give people the ability to kind of ride the wave instead of getting crushed by it.

Christian Brim (01:43.878)
Yes, yes, it is a wave for sure, a tsunami. So then who is the ideal prospect or client for you at Overling?

James Lang (01:56.716)
Yeah, we're in a number of spaces. So I mentioned before the VC and the incubator side we're not as public about. And the reason for that is we look to be a consultant partner first because we want to understand number one, do we have a good working relationship? But number two, can we solve problems for you and what are those problems? And to figure that out, to imagine that you're going to meet somebody, understand their business, understand the real problems, not just the ones they tell you about and do all of that in one step.

You need a staged approach. And so what we've been doing and what we've been focused on is coming into different law firms that are focused on client intake, finding ways to make that process more efficient. In the medical space, it's patient intake. In the 3PL logistics space, we have technology that allows for all of the different data silos that exist to be able to allow customers to self-serve, frontline employees to make better decisions.

and then management to access information more quickly. And so everything we're doing right now is around operational excellence. What are the people, processes, and cultures that got you to where you are today? And how do we enhance those? Because for us, if we can use technology and systems to make the people on your team 10 times more valuable, you're going to want to hire more people. It's not about replacing people with technology. It's about amplifying their value and allowing you to grow as an organization.

Christian Brim (03:24.921)
Yeah, I think the hype monster for AI is having lived through both of them is even worse than the hype monster that existed with the advent of the internet. And you hear so much talk about jobs going away.

James Lang (03:39.266)
Yes.

Christian Brim (03:44.966)
And then you have Elon Musk saying, well, five years from now, nobody's going to be working. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. To your point, it is a tool, right? It is a labor amplifier, for sure. And there are going to be some jobs that are going to go away, for sure. No question about that.

James Lang (04:08.758)
I prefer the term change.

Christian Brim (04:10.745)
Well, yes, the idea that there are not going to be jobs is nonsensical. It is going to change the jobs. And just like the buggy whip manufacturers did eventually, well, I don't know, there might be one or two buggy whip manufacturers still in the world. Yeah, mean, that

James Lang (04:32.461)
Check Etsy.

Christian Brim (04:39.033)
that shift in economics is going to cause disruption. There's no question about that. But it is fascinating that the hype, even the most rational entrepreneurs get sucked into it and think that, you know, they can't really get that perspective of what is actually going on. But okay, so let's let's go back to you working with these folks as a consultant.

What what do you see the the biggest? Common thread among the entrepreneurs out there that they're struggling with

James Lang (05:22.072)
Yeah, so a lot of the people we work with are professionals who are growing their firms. So they're not your average, you I had an idea in high school and here I am to put it together. They're people who have taken their idea to the market, allowed the market to tell them how to adjust their product, or they've gone to school and they have some specialized training, you those sorts of things. So the great thing about dealing with people like that is there's a dose of reality. There's a dose of understanding that

you know, just because you're hearing about something, you know, you have to ask yourself the question, does somebody I know, have they experienced this problem? Cause like, what if I were to tell you that everybody's getting hit by buses left and right, everybody, it's terrible. You know, it's a horrible thing happening. Well, it doesn't mean, you know, my argument would be no, that's not happening. Yes, there are people getting hit by buses, but how many people do you know were hit by a bus? And when you ask that added question of like, okay, kind of audit your circle, audit your personal experience.

Christian Brim (06:14.339)
Mm-hmm.

James Lang (06:21.582)
and use that to measure and provide context to what you're being told is coming. That's one way to skin the cat and help kind of take away some of the hyperbole and anxiety and fear and try to bring things back down to earth. the people who are very forward thinking, nobody is having the conversation of how do I shrink my team?

Christian Brim (06:39.256)
Mm-hmm.

James Lang (06:48.062)
There's not one entrepreneur out there that I've talked to that says, how do I get rid of my people? Your people are your most valuable asset. What they are saying is how do I make the time and energy put in by my team more valuable to me as a business owner? And how do I find new ways to reward them because of that? So it's an education process for the team and for the individual. It's a reality check for the owner and the leadership to understand like what is actually possible. And also,

It's an opportunity. You one of the things I'm seeing right now is, we joke about like flyover States, right? You there's, you have all this technology and wealth concentrate around the coasts, but the Midwest of the country, largely they've either gotten little access to the technology, slow access to the technology, or even worse taken advantage of by charlatans to come in and tell them, yeah, you know, you're way behind the coasts. You got to catch up, spend a million dollars with me. you know, so

This kind of dynamic is kind of what we're really trying to help push back against is like, do we, again, give everybody access to the same information and enable us to take what we know and then more importantly, figure out what we don't know together in a way that makes sense. And so in that Midwest example, a lot of times we have clients that get ROI right away because we come in into their tech stack and we say, look, you're paying for duplicate licenses here. You're paying for...

bunch of technology you don't need. And so there's a simpler way to do this without having to pay all these fees. And that's another area that a lot of companies really don't think about is the tech debt and solving that problem can set you up to free up capital to solve all the other things.

Christian Brim (08:32.279)
What size companies do you typically engage?

James Lang (08:36.366)
So the smallest ones we work with are generally in the five to 15 employees range. If you look at it from a headcount perspective, the largest one has just over 100. So we're not dealing with the Fortune 500s or even the upper end of the medium size. We're looking more at the people who have built something. They just got done working in their company. Now they're finally working on it and they're trying to do it more intelligently.

Or they're struggling to get to that point where they can work on it instead of in it and they need help kind of crossing the finish line on that You know the the other piece of it is in the professional services area You know, we do have private private smallest or the law firms believe it not a lot of them are very you know, three four partners and then they have their support staff and you know that space is interesting too because

you have the challenge of it's no different than from a medical clinic in the sense that if you're the doctor and the owner of the clinic, what are you doing? Are you litigating or are you running your business? Are you treating patients or are you running your clinic? You can't do both at the same time. And so it's making that transition into being a business owner in addition to being a professional.

Christian Brim (09:48.538)
Yeah, you hit two professions that historically I have found are awful at the business side, lawyers and doctors specifically, usually are awful at the business side of a business. And unfortunately, they usually are not real interested in getting better because they're

James Lang (09:54.69)
Yes.

Christian Brim (10:13.665)
they perceive themselves as the smartest ones in the room. But that's not, I'm not here to belittle anybody. My question to you is what is the symptom that they're coming to you to fix? Like what is, not the problem, what are the symptoms?

James Lang (10:31.608)
Yeah, the symptom is that they know that there's inefficiencies, there's friction that they can't figure out how to get out. So they feel like they're pouring a bunch of oil into an engine, and the engine might be getting quieter, but it's not getting more powerful or more efficient. So that's really what they're trying to figure out is like, is what I'm doing effective? And how do I end up with more money at the end of the quarter rather than less? Because they just feel like their overhead has exploded.

And they're starting to drown and they just don't understand the why behind that. So the symptom is financial time, stress level, all those things. But the actual cause is generally a lack of systems. my dad's an attorney, so I can definitely speak to the attorney side of it intimately with the challenges of law firms and partners.

Christian Brim (11:01.583)
Mmm.

James Lang (11:30.72)
any professional corporation, whether it's medical or legal. You have a lot of chiefs in the room and sometimes too many Indians as well. But the challenge for doctors more than anything is they do think that they're absolute geniuses because they went to school for so long, they went through a competitive space, especially if there's

Christian Brim (11:48.473)
They've been told they're geniuses forever. Like, yeah.

James Lang (11:52.034)
Well, it's worse if they're specialists. So the minute you start talking to the surgeons and the specialists, they have an even higher level of that. And what happens is they end up creating these super complicated business arrangements. And so that's why what's happening, it seems to be across America right now, is the swallowing up of healthcare into these big corporations. And so these big corporations are reaching out and buying all these little practices. It's happening in the dental space, it's happening in the general medical space.

So, but there's a lot of providers who don't want to go that direction. They want to maintain their independence. They want to maintain their relationship with their patients. And so we're able to help them kind of achieve that without having to sell out in order to survive.

Christian Brim (12:37.807)
So what is the experience that you've lived that you find most helpful in sharing with these owners?

James Lang (12:50.83)
So part of it is scaling a company from, you know, five, 10 employees to 30, then 60, and then down to 30 once we figured out some operational efficiencies. So it's understanding that so many of the people I talk to have MBAs who have much better academic resumes than I do. And I respect their experience, but what I hear from them is, well, this is how it's supposed to work. And a whole lot of theory and a lot of like, this is,

the system that works really well, know, Six Sigma or whatever. And nine times out of 10, what they're describing is something designed for Ford or GM, not for your smaller size business. And so there's wisdom in that, but you have to know how to apply it and when to apply it and how to adjust it and inform it to fit the actual situation. So what I'm hearing from a lot of different people and

the experience I kind of draw on the most is.

Well, let me answer it this way. So my experience that I draw on the most is being the dumbest person in the room. I'm very comfortable with that. And what I mean by that is I want to bring in people that know way more than me. I want to bring them together. I want to get them talking. And then I just want to be the quiet person in the room if I can. And my goal is to ask the right question at the right time. That's a more personal example that anybody can relate to is my great aunt Sharon. She was dealing with end of life care.

She had bone cancer and we're trying to figure out, know, is it time for hospice and For her it was a struggle of am I gonna throw in the towel or am I gonna keep going? And so the whole family's gathered around we're having this conversation just goes on and on the social workers there the nurse from the hospice places there so this is like the meeting where a decision is gonna happen and After almost an hour the conversation shifts to well, maybe we should come together again next week. And at that point I'm just like question for you and Sharon

Christian Brim (14:28.558)
Mm-hmm.

James Lang (14:52.276)
If you have the same episode you had last week, do you want to go to the hospital, stay at the hospital for a week, then come back? Or do you want to be kept comfortable here at home and receive all of your care at home? Which do you prefer? And all of a sudden, all these complicated things just became, no, I think I want to stay home. And so now we don't need another meeting. We don't have to keep going around and around in circles. Everybody in that room cared and cared deeply and

had a perspective to offer, but nobody was asking the right question.

Christian Brim (15:28.644)
Yeah, I think what you're describing is a typical entrepreneurial behavior and and my experience My lived experiences is that it it's Nothing more than hubris and ego It's it's it's trying to be The smartest person in the room and I think one of the things that you said That was brilliant that

James Lang (15:46.094)
Right.

Christian Brim (15:58.629)
It's it's it's figuring out the who's and let them figuring out the how's you know, Dan Sullivan's book around that and transitioning from being the person with all the answers to being the person that can find the the right person to answer the how you know, most business problems have already been solved. Like there's no reason to go and and figure it out.

Again, that's expensive and time consuming, but this mindset that we have as entrepreneurs that well, we've, we've got to figure that out, but you know, do, do you really need to figure it out or is that just, you know, you know, a sewaging your ego? would it be better to bring someone else in and you turn over the reins?

James Lang (16:57.068)
go back to, you asking the right question of yourself or the people around you? And sometimes to speak to the ego side of things, we want to focus on what we know and tailor the discussion to our area of expertise. And sometimes that means you're not asking the right question. And so sometimes asking the right question means that you have to go outside of yourself to get answers. One of my biggest anxiety moments as a freelance writer at working at an agency.

Christian Brim (17:14.915)
Mm-hmm.

James Lang (17:25.838)
So sorry, this is the transition to being in-house, so no longer freelance. But I'm going to work one day and I'm thinking, I don't know anything about garage doors. Like I know how to push the button and make it open and close, but we had this big client who had a garage door company in Plano, Texas. And so we're trying to figure out how to handle their digital marketing, how do we create all these landing pages, all these things. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't know how I'm going to come up with the answers on all this stuff. I don't know what I don't know even.

And then it hit me like, as I got closer to the office, I'm going, wait a second, I have Google and I have a brain and I have the ability to write things down and create knowledge around things. So let me just go to Google and ask the right questions and then get the information and kind of cross reference, see if I'm right. And in that approach, I was able to create content and create an organic structure that made sense on a topic I knew virtually nothing about.

And it's because you're able to go and reference everything. We've never had access as a human society to more information, more shared information, both bad information and good information, but regardless, information. And so it's again about asking the right questions. And sometimes that's a Google search. Sometimes that's a conversation with chat GPT, but more often than not, it's a conversation with your trusted circle and kind of masterminding it out.

Christian Brim (18:49.482)
Yeah, having the yes, asking the question is not nearly as important as asking the right question. And, and I think you're spot on that most of the time we need outside counsel as to what even the right question to be asking is. but I think that if, you know, I, heard this phrase long ago in an entrepreneurial circles that

your business is specifically engineered and tailored to deliver the outcomes that you're receiving. And, and it's like, if you want a different outcome, you're going to have to change something, right? Well, not that. Okay, that makes sense. On the surface that yeah, okay, but it's a deeper truth. Like, what what you're not experiencing the results that you want, because you're not

doing something or you're, you're either not doing something that you should be doing, or you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing, like, and, and being in the bottle, it's very hard to read the label, you know, you, you, you have to have a different perspective, in order to even understand what's wrong. And it's being an entrepreneur, it's, you know, what got you to the point of success was

self-reliance, stick-to-itiveness, vision. And when those things run out, you you've built something and but it's not giving you the results you want. You have to set your ego aside and say, I need help. But to your point, you know, oftentimes there's people out there that are more than willing to take your money.

to, to, you know, scratch that itch. But it's, I think it's having that clarity of what is it that you really want? Because if you don't have clarity on what you want, and you go out and you look for help, you're going to find what you're looking for. You're going to find somebody that that will tell you, yeah, that's your problem.

Christian Brim (21:16.324)
I can fix it for you and then you spend money with them and then you're like, well that didn't work. It's because you don't have any clarity in yourself of what it is that you want. That's my opinion.

James Lang (21:29.454)
I think a parallel to that is, you even working on the right muscle? So let's say that it is a muscle thing and it's something that you can do. Well, do you A, have that muscle and B, is it toned and strong and able to deliver? And so, you know, an example that we kind of touched on previously was when I went to take over from going from writing content for our company to running the customer service and customer experience side of the shop. It was because we really didn't have much of

we had a lot of muscle atrophy in the customer service side. So no matter what you did on the marketing, on the writing, the user experience side of everything, that didn't translate to great results because the friction that was occurring that wasn't even really measured by the digital funnel, because we're looking at digital tools that tell us, hey, how are all these different tools performing? How are all these different pages performing, A-B testing? But none of those tools were asking.

Hey, what's your customer service like? What's the bottom of the funnel look like for the stuff that's not on the page? And once we figured out that was one of the big leaky points in our funnel was people talk to our customer service and they're not impressed. Then we fixed that and all of a sudden, boom, all these things that we've been fine tuning and tuning and tuning and optimizing suddenly start to deliver a thousand percent better. yeah, I think it's...

figuring out if there's a blind spot in your organization that you've been ignoring while focusing on everything else. And a lot of times the thing that you're trying to fix or the thing that you're trying to enhance to solve the problem isn't even where the problem lies. And to your point, you need an outside perspective to see the label on the bottle that you're in.

Christian Brim (23:11.78)
You know what you're describing, I remember I started my first business, my current business as it was a franchise model. And I remember going to the first gathering of franchisees and there was a very successful franchisee. you know, on the surface it was like, oh, I want to be him.

And then I was talking to some other franchisees and said, well, yeah, that's great. He's number one in the network and, and, you know, doing all these dollars, but he's, he's got a problem because every single new customer he brings in, he's, he's running it off the backend. in other words, he's just, he's just churning to stay in place. and I think a lot of

I think a lot of companies that experience growth have that exact problem is running off the back end as fast as you're bringing it on the front end. And I think, like you said, if you're not delivering, if you're not giving the experience that you've promised, you're absolutely not not going anywhere. mean, and if your focus is solely on growth,

It's very easy to get to focus on that marketing side, the sales side and neglect the customer service or client service aspect of it. But you had, yeah, it's like the, the, heard the founder of Boston market speak in an event and he had a very thick Italian accent and a thick Boston accent. So it was very hard to understand him.

But fortunately, he used small words so I could understand. said, you know, business is very simple. He said it's either get the business or do the business. you know, I mean, that that that's it. It's not more it. It's that's not an easy distinction. But the reality is that is all businesses is is it's either getting the business or doing the business. And then he followed that up with a gem of

Christian Brim (25:29.859)
No business, no problem. More business, more problems. And I'm like, yeah, that's sage advice. The idea that you're going to get to a point and have a business without any problems is a fantasy that does not exist.

James Lang (25:49.166)
Yeah, I think that you have to manage the demand and also manage the delivery at the same time. And if you focus too much on one or you don't have somebody focusing organizationally on the other while you're focusing on one, you're in trouble. You're going to have to work 10 times harder on one of those rather than one-tenth as hard on both. And kind of a parallel to what you were talking about during the one year I was up at John Carroll and

Christian Brim (25:57.89)
Yeah.

James Lang (26:18.766)
Cleveland, which is a phenomenal business school. They're smart enough to kick me out. But the one here, was there, the CEO of the Hershey's company came by and because his assistant went to John Carroll. And he gave this amazing talk. And John Carroll was a small school to begin with. you know, then you go into like a seminar and it's even smaller, which is great. But in talking with him, you this was during the time that Hershey's was acquiring

You know, all these different things. So now if you go into the grocery store, a huge percentage of the products you're looking at on certain aisles are all Hershey's, whether you realized or, you know, schmuckers and other groups. forgive me. It was the CEO of schmuckers, my bad. I meant to say schmuckers. Sorry, was eating Reese's Pieces earlier today. I must be stuck in my head. But the CEO of schmuckers, you know, I'm a simple person. It's easy to lead me astray, but the,

Christian Brim (27:03.351)
Okay.

Christian Brim (27:10.187)
It's easy to do with chocolate.

James Lang (27:17.582)
The amazing thing he said was, as we make all these acquisitions, is everyone that's on the bus right now, when they take over the wheel of the bus, everyone that's on there is on there for a reason. And everyone that wants to be there is welcome to stay there, but where they're sitting on the bus might change. And if they can't handle that, if they can't process it, they might be getting off at the next stop, but that's not where they start. It's not like they walk on the bus and go, okay, everybody's getting off at the next stop. That's first.

Let's figure out how to take what you know and help you find the right position in this new version of the organization, the evolution. And that's where we're at with AI. If people in the organization and the team are not utilizing AI, are not competent in it and learning about it, they're gonna find themselves getting off the bus rather than their position evolving into something that uses the latest technology and makes them more valuable. And that's another, not to take the conversation in totally different direction, but there's this mass exodus happening.

I believe it was last in the last quarter, more companies have been sold and transferred ownership or either acquired into large companies or moved down a generation and handed down, uh, then in a long time. And that spike is occurring because this, this technology change, this big wave, it's people are either going to say, yeah, I'm down for another run around the roller coaster, you know, staying on, or they're going to say, this is where I exit. You know, I've been through the internet.

I've been through the dot com bubble, the 2008 crisis, COVID, I've been through all these things. I'm not ready to go through another one. And so it's a really interesting time in that the people with their hands on the wheel of the bus, it's changing.

Christian Brim (29:03.043)
Yeah, and I think that it is a tremendous opportunity for those that are willing to stay on the roller coaster. It's it's but it is to our previous conversation. It's it's it's easy to get caught up in the hype and get confused by what everybody else is saying. It's a good time. I think it's usually a good time to be a contrarian. It's like if the if the herd is moving one way

You might want to zag instead of zig. James, go ahead. No, go ahead.

James Lang (29:36.91)
Yeah, our version of that. go ahead.

Yeah, so I was just going to say our version of that is, you know, when we started, one of the first things we worked on was like, Hey, how do we take these quiz funnels that work really well? You know, they ask you five questions, right size, the product, qualify the customer, all that stuff, and kind of educate you along the way too with interstitials. But how do we take that quiz process and add in the ability to have a conversation around the quiz with AI? And, you know, cause you can't go beyond five questions or else you're going to lose their attention. They're not going to make it through to the end.

But if you allow them to chat and have a conversation around the quiz, the question you just asked two seconds ago might actually trigger another question in their head that you're not addressing in this quiz. And so it allows you to make a much more comprehensive profile of your e-commerce consumer. So we started working on this. And the problem we thought we were trying to solve was how do we make quiz funnels better? But when we started running the testing on the solution, the first version of this, it cost us $800 in compute. So it's like, OK.

What are the off-the-shelf solutions that we can use to kind of cut down this compute cost? And the end result was we basically went dark for about two, three months and then kind of started to let the light in a little bit for the next three months. So a total of six months of just refocusing on, hey, we can't solve this problem with off-the-shelf solutions. So we got to figure this out on our own. And thankfully, we have the expertise in-house to do that.

What we ended up doing was we got that $800 cost down to about $4. And so our zig instead of zagging and being contrarian is like, hey, AI is great for everything. Let's just use more AI. Use AI to solve AI, right? We went the other way and said, how do we make the AI infrastructure better? And so that's where we started to create our own, what we call our playground on our website. You can go in and see different programs and solutions that we've built for different industries.

James Lang (31:37.166)
that are not specific to a company or providing any client data, but providing a demo experience basically. And that was kind of our zig and zag. was like, we're gonna go in this direction, there's all this AI out there. And that's like, now instead of focusing on AI at the end, let's focus on the infrastructure you're running the AI on and what data it's using.

Christian Brim (32:00.278)
Yeah, I recently read a post on LinkedIn from Chris Doe and he's a huge influencer in the creative space. And he was talking about an episode where he was working with one of his colleagues that was a designer, I think, and they were trying to work on this thing with AI and, you know, had spent hours trying to get it and it wasn't right. And, and Chris was like, you know,

I think we could use Photoshop to fix this. And like in 15 minutes, they did, they went back to an old technology. But the point was that it was losing the force for the trees and understanding really what it is that you're trying to solve and where you bring your value. It's not like, yeah, AI can be a huge black hole of time and money.

James Lang (32:32.142)
Right.

James Lang (32:37.688)
Great.

Christian Brim (32:58.153)
if you're trying to use it in all situations. James, I love this conversation. I have to draw it to a close. How do people find out more about overlaying venture partners?

James Lang (33:11.34)
Yeah, so it's really easy. You just go to over O-V-E-R and then lang.com. You can also reach out to me on LinkedIn on James lang.com. Ironically spelled the same way as our company name. So if you go to find me on LinkedIn, go to our website over lang.com. Either way, my goal is anyone that reaches out to me on LinkedIn. We didn't really go into it in this podcast, but I'm kind of in a period of life where I'm trying to give back as much as I can with this time.

you know, if you reach out to me on LinkedIn and you're like, hey, I'm just, this is a struggle. I can't figure this out. Or, you know, I really would love an outside perspective on this thing. I try to respond to every message, not necessarily right away, but I do respond and I love helping people kind of think about it from a different angle. Even if it's not helpful all the time, you know, there's, there's periods where you just find out like, no, that was it, clear the log jam. So if I can be of any help on your own journey, please reach out.

Christian Brim (34:10.337)
Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember you are not alone.