When it All Falls Apart: Todd Patkin

Summary

In this episode, Todd Patkin shares his journey from a successful business owner to experiencing a nervous breakdown and his subsequent recovery. He discusses the importance of mental health, the role of medication, and how he found happiness beyond success. Todd also introduces his 12-step program for happiness, emphasizing the need for authenticity and acceptance in life. He reflects on the impact of ego on success and fulfillment, the stigma surrounding mental health, and the importance of connecting with others to share experiences.

Takeaways

• Todd Patkin experienced a nervous breakdown at 36 after years of success.
• Mental health struggles can stem from various life pressures and personal losses.
• Seeking professional help and medication can be crucial for recovery.
• Happiness is about self-acceptance, not just achievements.
• Todd's 12-step program focuses on treating oneself with kindness.
• Ego can drive success but may lead to burnout and unhappiness.
• Generational differences affect attitudes towards mental health and medication.
• Authenticity is key to personal fulfillment and connection with others.
• Business success does not guarantee personal happiness or fulfillment.
• Sharing experiences can help others feel less alone in their struggles.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:02.456)
Give me the company's name again, I already forgot it.

Todd patkin (00:04.653)
Bottle Park International.

Christian Brim (00:07.116)
Okay, you'd think that was simple enough to remember for 30 seconds, but evidently not. Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Todd Patkin of Auto Parts International. Welcome to the show, Todd.

Todd patkin (00:22.27)
Thanks Chris, glad to be here.

Christian Brim (00:25.09)
So, you're no longer associated with Auto Parts International. Why don't you give us the brief version of your involvement?

Todd patkin (00:35.197)
Well, the company was started by my dad in 1957. I joined the company in 1988. At the time we had 18 stores. My job was the P &L, so I was responsible for all of the sales, GP and expenses. We had two sales divisions, our 18 stores and our 10 telemarketers.

And I was able to be quite successful when we sold it. had 62 stores and the telemarketing division had more than tripled. So I was extremely, extremely successful, but I also had a nervous breakdown at the age of 36, suicidal at the time. So the highest high and the lowest low.

Christian Brim (01:24.078)
So did you go that entire time with your dad in the business or were you ever there by yourself?

Todd patkin (01:31.282)
Now my dad was there the whole time and my brother joined in 94. My dad and I had a fantastic business relationship.

Christian Brim (01:40.11)
Well, that's an interesting topic we can delve into, family and business. okay, so you had this nervous breakdown while at the company or after your involvement with the company?

Todd patkin (01:52.677)
I had the nervous breakdown in the year 2000 and I left the company when we sold it in 2005.

Christian Brim (02:00.214)
Okay, so looking back, what was the cause of the nervous breakdown?

Todd patkin (02:08.371)
Well, I had been working so hard for so long and then we actually lost a pregnancy, which I found extremely difficult. And then I had actually fractured my foot. I had become addicted to exercise, Chris. Exercise is how I dealt with all the stress and anytime that I was depressed or anything like that. And then I always would have meetings like Tony Robbins. I'd jump off tables and try to get everybody really fired up.

Christian Brim (02:21.038)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (02:38.564)
And one of the meetings we decided to have at our corporate offices, so our telemarketing and sales teams at the stores could spend time after the meeting with the different department heads, credit, accounts payable, etc. So I jumped off the table, but instead of it being a rug floor, was a hardwood, not a hardwood, but a concrete floor. So I fractured my feet and I couldn't work out. And between the last pregnancy, not being able to work out, I just felt

Christian Brim (03:00.11)
Mmm.

Todd patkin (03:08.861)
further and further down until I broke.

Christian Brim (03:13.43)
Was there something else beyond those two things that was like the trigger or the final straw?

Todd patkin (03:22.212)
I think it's just a situation that as you're falling down, it's like the neurons in your brain just start, stop popping like they're supposed to pop and they slow down. And you get to a point where I couldn't even decide when I was at the local hamburger joint, the woman asked me, I want potato salad or coleslaw? And I literally could not answer that question.

Christian Brim (03:45.87)
How long was that period? From the loss of your child to the actual dysfunction?

Todd patkin (03:57.746)
Probably six months.

Christian Brim (03:59.853)
Yeah. How long? Okay. So how did you recover from that? What did that look like?

Todd patkin (04:07.922)
Antidepressants. I believe if you're broken, you can't get out of bed and you want to kill yourself. You really need to see a psychiatrist and I expect he'll recommend antidepressants and I'm a firm believer in them.

Christian Brim (04:22.936)
So was that a difficult choice for you or were you like, I can imagine that maybe your wife or others were like worried about you and were encouraging you to seek help. Did you have any resistance around that?

Todd patkin (04:41.987)
No, I mean I was broke and I wanted to kill myself so I would do anything to get better.

Christian Brim (04:48.234)
And how long was that journey with the professional help and the medication? Was that like a quick recovery or?

Todd patkin (04:56.978)
Six weeks, the medicine kicked in and I was back to my old self in six weeks.

Christian Brim (05:03.946)
Okay, so if you're...

Todd patkin (05:06.171)
But I didn't see the professionals immediately. It took maybe a month or five weeks of feeling like I wanted to die before I saw the professionals. So the whole process was probably 10 weeks, which was just a killer.

Christian Brim (05:23.694)
I'm going to ask this question because of my own journey with antidepressants. Did you did you ever feel like there was something underlying that that caused you to need the antidepressants like something that that was beneath the surface that was causing the symptoms?

Todd patkin (05:50.745)
Yeah. Well, later on they diagnosed me as bipolar. And that's a lot of the reason I think I was always so high at work, sky high, flying so high and then fell so sharply down.

Christian Brim (05:55.256)
Okay.

Christian Brim (05:59.917)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (06:04.842)
What, if you don't mind sharing, what were the medications that they gave you?

Todd patkin (06:10.458)
Depakote and Effexor. Depakote is a mood stabilizer and Effexor is an antidepressant.

Christian Brim (06:19.01)
Did you, were you able to share that with others like that you were on medication immediately or was that something that you kind of kept hidden?

Todd patkin (06:30.605)
No, I'm probably one of the first ones that wanted everybody to know. I share, I had a breakdown, I'm on antidepressants pretty much from day one. I wrote my book in 2012. My autobiography, I shared all of that in the

Christian Brim (06:45.816)
So your breakdown happened in what year again?

Todd patkin (06:49.36)
2000.

Christian Brim (06:51.086)
Okay, so what inspired you to write the book? Like that seems like a long period of time.

Todd patkin (07:01.036)
Well, I was in the business through 2006. We sold it in 2005. I got out of the business and I decided I was going to start to work on happiness. And it took me three years to write the book. I wanted it to be great. And I really wrote the book because I felt like so many people in life do such dumb stuff. We do dumb things, but we think we're the only ones who do it. And it can really haunt us.

I was bullied by a girl in high school in senior year and she just ruined my life for one year and I felt like I got to be the only man who's bullied by a girl and when you get older you realize that's not the case. And I had some other things that I found really embarrassing that I did and I wanted to share it with the younger people so they realized that we all do this stuff, we all make these mistakes and don't take it so seriously.

Christian Brim (07:54.285)
I think it's interesting that timeline because I interviewed somebody on this show Ken Cox. He was one of the very first episodes and he was an alcoholic and he he got sober but he still wasn't happy or fulfilled right until he found he actually bought a

boxing gym to train with all the other old men until the neighborhood kids started coming in saying they wanted to learn how to box and he was like, No, get away. This is this is for us old guys. And until he actually allowed them into the club and started teaching them and mentoring them and, and then he, you know, found purpose and fulfillment and happiness. So I think there's this misconception

that just because you've moved away from depression doesn't necessarily mean that you've moved towards fulfillment and happiness. There's kind of an in-between state where you're not really either or. Was that your experience?

Todd patkin (09:04.527)
.

Todd patkin (09:13.81)
Well, I feel that the definition of happiness is when you can truly learn to love yourself just because you exist. Most people feel like they need to constantly succeed. When I get a that a boy from my boss or a raise, then I can be happier.

Christian Brim (09:21.582)
Hmm

Todd patkin (09:31.802)
You know, when I buy the right car, I can be happy. So just being happy for who you are. Now, if that was all you did, you'd be terribly bored and wouldn't really feel great about yourself. Of course you need a purpose. For me now, it's getting out and trying to help as many people learn to be happy as possible. But the first thing I want people to realize is they don't have to constantly achieve to be happy. You can learn to be happy just like you learn how to...

Christian Brim (09:56.13)
Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (09:59.383)
workout at the gym. have a 12-step program that teaches people how to be happy.

Christian Brim (10:05.838)
Is it based upon the addiction 12 step program or no? Okay.

Todd patkin (10:11.415)
No, no, no, no. Now it's something that I came up with when I had my breakdown. I had to say to myself, Todd, you've now got more money than you ever thought you'd have. You have an incredible wife, a wonderful son, and you wanted to kill yourself. Something's broken. And I really started to dissect why I was so unhappy. And then I twisted those things around. I turned them around. Now, week three, for example, is treating yourself harshly.

Christian Brim (10:27.383)
Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (10:39.341)
You know, most people say to themselves all day long, I can't believe how fat I am, how stupid I am, what a bad dad I am, what a bad son I am. And that can really affect you. It actually affects you at the cellular level, scientists have found out. So I try to encourage people to be a little less harsh on themselves. Maybe instead of saying, I can't believe how stupid I am, say, you know what? At work, I'm actually pretty smart. That was just a dumb thing, one dumb thing I said.

and then also make a list each day of the 10 things you did well.

Christian Brim (11:13.442)
Did you do any work in that period where you worked with other coaches or therapists or any other professional in your journey or was this just self-taught?

Todd patkin (11:31.118)
Well, Tony Robbins has had a great influence on my life. At 23, he really changed me. I was a negative guy. I thought that I couldn't be successful because I wasn't so great. I got straight A's, but I wasn't that sociable and girls didn't like me. So I felt like I just kind of wasn't that good in general. And Tony Robbins teaches you that the past doesn't equal the future. And you can change and you can be great, you can be solid. And that's when I got...

onto my real ego trip. I say my first 40 years in life was all about ego, but that drove me to be incredibly successful. And then once I had the breakdown, I really got rid of the ego and now I'm just there to serve.

Christian Brim (12:02.478)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (12:09.88)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (12:17.826)
That's a beautiful statement. Yeah, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, myself included, start out very ego-driven. And I think that in some ways that may be necessary to succeed as a business owner, to believe in yourself, to not listen to doubters, to see the possible. But to your point, you can achieve that success and then

realize you're still not happy. Because you, I mean, for me, I can't speak for you. I think that the success or the achievement, the striving is essentially unfulfilling because you there's always more, right? There's always more you could do or, you know, some some additional mountain to climb.

Todd patkin (13:16.547)
I'm sorry Chris, I missed you for a second. Yeah, it was a phone call.

Christian Brim (13:19.278)
That's all right. Okay. So what I was saying was that, you know, the ego is front and center when you start as an entrepreneur. And I think it's necessary because you have to have the fortitude, the stubbornness, the belief in yourself that allows you to overcome those things. But

It's also essentially unfulfilling achievement striving because there's no end to it. Like you can always look at your situation and say, I could do more. I could do better. There's some other challenge to defeat until you, like you said so eloquently until you can be satisfied with who you are separate from your, your accomplishments or achievements.

Todd patkin (14:02.965)
.

Christian Brim (14:19.213)
you never get off that wheel, that hamster wheel.

Todd patkin (14:25.423)
That's where the breakdown helps. have people who say to me nowadays, Todd, I'd like to be more like you. And I say, well, then have a breakdown. I mean, as I said, I was really quite successful. When you have a breakdown, you say to yourself, you have it all and you want to kill yourself. So that obviously isn't working. Constantly telling yourself how great you are and lifting up your guys and being a Tony Robbins every day.

and you go in a different direction, you're just too burnt out. You know, I flew right to the sky, had a gentleman who used to work with business owners and he said, Todd, I've never seen anybody fly so quickly to the heights. So you got so burnt out, you dropped right down. So part of it is I just don't have the energy left in my body to be a crazy egomaniac. And fortunately,

I have found a different way to go and that's to be easier on myself. I got a fortune cookie one day and it said you grow up the day you learn to laugh at yourself, the first day you learn to just take a good laugh at yourself. So many people when they make a mistake, they're so harsh on themselves. And I don't, I make mistakes all the time and they really don't bother me. I just kind of laugh.

Christian Brim (15:46.327)
Does that inner critic that that voice telling you that you were stupid or not enough? Does that still show up?

Todd patkin (15:57.346)
Not really. mean, I mean, yeah, yeah, sometimes, but maybe once a week instead of 10 times a day.

Christian Brim (16:06.741)
And so you're just able to deal with it differently than you were before.

Todd patkin (16:12.1)
Yeah, I mean, I know that I was very successful when I was younger. I've done a lot of philanthropy. I've been very generous with the gift that I got when I sold the company. Now I'm enjoying helping people. One of the things I enjoy the most, Chris, is when most of my family and friends know that if someone's broken and they're going through a breakdown, they can call me and I get them with my favorite doctor, Dr. Muffin, who I think

just the best psychopharmacologist in the world, and within three weeks they're all better. So that gives me so much joy.

Christian Brim (16:49.695)
I wrote a Substack article on my journey with SSRIs, which is different than the medication you were on. I've, the only time I a psychiatrist, she diagnosed me with generalized anxiety disorder, whatever that is. But what I found, I actually,

came, I had been off the medication, medications periodically over over the, you know, 15 years that I'd been on them. But I finally was able to go off of them entirely earlier this year. And for me, you know, I think everybody's journey is different. For me, it was a crutch to

cover up the fact that I did not know how to regulate my own emotion. am a highly emotional person, but as a man growing up when I grew up, that was not acceptable to me. Like the idea that I would feel emotions and cry, I was not comfortable with.

And and to your point, I mean like I thought there was something wrong with me Which i'm thankful for the medication Because it allowed me to deal with a lot of things that I was emotionally unable to deal with But what I came to the conclusion was through through looking at my children one of my daughters suffered from from similar

Todd patkin (18:18.607)
.

Christian Brim (18:47.437)
symptoms and she had tried SSRIs and decided she did not want them. And what I was inspired by her to try again and what I realized was that I was now able to, through the work that I'd done, be able to handle and regulate my emotions better. I still feel them, but I'm not controlled by them.

Todd patkin (18:48.207)
.

Christian Brim (19:15.853)
which which was a very different thing than in the past, I would, you know, couldn't control my emotions, I couldn't handle them. And it would, you know, go places I didn't want to go. Either whether that was depression or rage or, you know, all of these extreme emotions. Now, I, I, I, I prefer having the feelings versus suppressing them. I don't know if that makes sense.

Todd patkin (19:34.074)
Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's great that you got off them. We'll see in the future. What happens with a lot of people is when they have extreme stress again, they need to go back on them.

Christian Brim (19:56.608)
And I'm not saying I wouldn't. I mean, I definitely know what they do and I have that in my quiver. But yeah, I mean, when you feel stressed, you know, we've had lots of psychologists on this show that the problem is it becomes an existential emotion. And it's just like being chased by the saber-toothed tiger. Your brain doesn't understand

the difference, it reacts the same. And so it really is a live or die response. Even though out from the outside looking in, you say, well, that's not a life or death situation, but it feels like.

Todd patkin (20:40.77)
Yeah, no, I understand. I, you know, still have things that happen to me, you know, that stress me out like anybody, of course.

Christian Brim (20:51.319)
Yeah, and I think that as you get older, you come to the understanding of what you can't control, right? And health is a perfect example. You can do things to control your health, but ultimately you're not in control of whether you are healthy or not.

Todd patkin (21:16.119)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:20.353)
being able to accept that what you can't and what you can control is a key part of being mentally healthy. mean, that's...

Todd patkin (21:28.429)
Absolutely.

Christian Brim (21:31.648)
I just finished a book by, and he's going to be on the program in 30 days. The author, he wrote the book called great leaders live like drug addicts and he, he was a drug addict and then got into rehab and started in business and was very successful, but

What he noticed was the parallels between what he learned in recovery and what it was to be a good leader. And foundationally, it was, you know, being authentic, not hiding behind a mask and trying to present the world what you think the world wants you to be.

Todd patkin (22:22.666)
That's the one word that most people use about me when they get to know me. Yeah.

Christian Brim (22:27.465)
is authentic. Yeah. And the second is just what I mentioned, you know, understanding that you can't control the outcomes. You know, there are some things you can control, but ultimately, the outcomes are largely beyond your control. And I think

Todd patkin (22:36.286)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (22:45.665)
Trying to control the outcomes and realizing you can't control the outcomes largely is what drives the fear that causes the lack of authenticity, right? So you like to pretend that you are in control or that you know the answers and have the solutions when you don't.

Todd patkin (23:07.648)
Yeah, I agree.

Christian Brim (23:10.263)
So who is it that you work with primarily? Is it business owners or is it?

Todd patkin (23:16.94)
I have just started to do more business. Usually it's my 12 week program. And if I'm not coaching, I'm speaking to people. I'd like to speak more, get out, do more public speaking. Right now I'm speaking for different philanthropies I'm involved with when they have big yearly conferences. I'm speaking at a breakout session for 50 or 100 people. I do a lot of videos on social media.

Christian Brim (23:20.503)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (23:45.47)
Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. But I certainly would lie to you if I said that I'm busy all the time. And I certainly would lie to you if I told you I'm doing a speech every month. I'm not doing nearly as many speeches as I'd like to.

Christian Brim (24:03.896)
So when you do do workshops or speaking, what are you?

Todd patkin (24:05.238)
But I am putting, one thing I should tell you, I don't know if you've heard of Udemy, but Udemy is like college on the internet and I'm putting my program up there. And I expect to get a lot of people, have believe it or not a million students and thousands of classes up there.

Christian Brim (24:23.918)
So when you do your speaking, are you speaking on this 12 step process or what would you prefer to speak about?

Todd patkin (24:31.743)
So far I've been speaking on the 12 week process, but what's interesting is I put out videos, as I said, over the internet. And when I put out ones on happiness, I'm getting about 400 people. And when I put ones out on business, I'm getting about a thousand people. So I realized the business ones resonate more.

Christian Brim (24:52.268)
Why do you think that is?

Todd patkin (24:54.238)
I think a lot of people are struggling these days and I have a lot of really unique things that I did in the business.

Christian Brim (25:00.92)
Give me an example, I'm curious.

Todd patkin (25:03.103)
Well, for example, if somebody did really well and broke a record, I'd call home and tell their wife and the kids how great they are. They broke a record. When their father comes home, you know, give them a big hug and a kiss. If I had someone who was a star and I really needed to nail them and I didn't want them to leave, I'd put off that meeting and I'd immediately send them great tickets to whatever I thought they liked, whether it was the Bruins, the Celtics, the Red Sox.

Christian Brim (25:16.482)
Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (25:30.741)
So when they came into my office, they'd be appreciative and feel the appreciation and the love. My word is love. And they wouldn't leave. They'd feel great about everything, but they'd take the criticism in the right frame of mind.

Christian Brim (25:48.942)
Do you think that your 12 week program, is that a self guided thing or is it better done with a coach or mentor?

Todd patkin (25:59.442)
Not self-guided. People can go on to my website at ToddPatkin.com and they can see the videos or they can download the workbook for free. That website's going to change in January 1st and it's going to be for Udemy students. So prior to January 1st, you can go to the website, see the videos and download the workbook.

Christian Brim (26:28.302)
Is there a group or cohort available like for people that are working this program to collaborate or to miserable or

Todd patkin (26:42.268)
Not right now.

Christian Brim (26:43.702)
Is that something you envision?

Todd patkin (26:46.463)
I don't think so. really don't want to be a coach.

Christian Brim (26:50.23)
Understood. I'm the reason why I ask is I find, you know, that entrepreneurship is not a solo game. Like if you try to do it yourself, it's very, very difficult. And, know, kind of your point about the

girl that bullied you, know, realizing that your situation, your story was not unique was helpful. I think being able to share experience with others has been very important to me to be able to say, I'm not the only one that thinks like this or has these thoughts or feels this way. That's the reason why I asked.

Todd patkin (27:37.508)
Yeah, that's why I wrote the book. Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to have anybody use the material. It's not like, you know, if they want to make a speech on my book, it's fine with me. I'm not hiding it or keeping it just to myself.

Christian Brim (27:48.077)
Ciao.

Christian Brim (27:53.262)
So when you say, I'm happy.

Christian Brim (28:02.241)
because I'm satisfied with myself. Unpack that a little. What does that mean?

Todd patkin (28:09.767)
Well, as I said, when I look at myself, I know that I have a huge heart. I'm always trying to do the right thing. I'm always in my mind honest with people. I'm always trying to help people. And I was incredibly successful. So I've got that in my background. I think if I hadn't had that success, maybe I wouldn't feel so great about myself. So if you have a scorecard, you know, I pretty much check all the boxes.

Christian Brim (28:31.937)
Is that

Christian Brim (28:38.317)
Well, let me ask a question then. You said pretty definitively that you didn't want to be a coach. Why is that?

Todd patkin (28:47.588)
I don't really have the time or energy to work one on one. It doesn't really turn me on that much, to be honest with I want to help as many people as I can.

Christian Brim (28:56.631)
That's fair. That's fair. But you feel like you have the ability to coach. You just don't think that's the best use of your time.

Todd patkin (29:07.452)
Exactly.

Christian Brim (29:08.779)
Okay, that's fair enough. I think that is one of the things that, you know, when you when you are trying to look at your impact, your legacy, maybe would be a good word. It's, it is kind of daunting to see all the people out there that need help. Right? And, and how best can you

affect the most people for the most good. So it's cool that you have.

put those limitations on yourself because you're trying to reach the most people.

Todd patkin (29:51.986)
Yeah, and I'd also get really frustrated if someone took my program and I spoke to them during one of the weeks and I said, how'd it go? And they said, well, to be honest with you, I blew it off this week. I'll do it next week. That would really piss me off. And I'm sure there's this 80-20 rule, I'm sure more would probably do a poor job than a good job.

Christian Brim (30:15.755)
Yes, I would agree with that. mean, I first got turned on to the Pareto Principle by Perry Marshall, who's an author and marketing guy. And I actually did research on it when I did my own book. what I find fascinating about it is it's very similar to the bell curve in the sense that

You know, you take a group of people and some people are going to succeed. Some people are going to fail. Most people are just going to be in the middle. And it, the reality is that people can belly ache and moan about them not liking their situation, but most people are not going to do something about it. which, know, looking at your situation,

Todd patkin (31:06.578)
Correct.

Christian Brim (31:13.098)
Had you not had the nervous breakdown, you probably wouldn't have done the work. Yeah.

Todd patkin (31:20.52)
Eventually I would have burnt. I was going so high and doing so great. I couldn't continue to do that. I would have burnt and had the breakdown. you said, hypothetically, if you didn't have the breakdown, I'd say, forget it, but hypothetical. I was working so hard. I was just a mad man, so it couldn't have continued.

Christian Brim (31:45.696)
It was inevitable. Did you before that happened, you know, you're in your 30s. Did you see any looking backwards? Did you see any places where that had happened prior in your life where you were like, did the pattern show up after you saw it is like, that's that's what was happening.

Todd patkin (32:07.08)
Well, I I had probably a minor breakdown in college. I brought a lot of homesickness to college from overnight camp. I brought a ton of perfectionism and I went to a very good school, Tufts in Boston. And so I needed to get straight A's in high school. I needed to get straight A's in college. The stress hit me so hard that even though my parents paid for a dormitory room, I pretty much stayed at home all the time. So I got the A's, but it made me

Christian Brim (32:14.572)
Mm-hmm.

Todd patkin (32:37.297)
crazy and the only reason I made it through college I think is that my dad turned me on to working out at the age of 19 and I've worked out pretty consistently three days a week since then and I just turned 60.

Christian Brim (32:52.205)
Did your, what was your dad's reaction to your nervous breakdown?

Todd patkin (32:57.146)
I think everybody was, you know, didn't know what to do. They were fearful. My dad was incredible because with my broken feet and the breakdown, they kind of went hand in hand. The feet couldn't get better while I was broken. And I was so upset about it. I had him take me to, you know, 10 different foot doctors and he was good enough to do that. He was very, very supportive. You know, I think his mother may have had some serious, you know, mental illness as well, but he was great.

Christian Brim (33:07.597)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:26.765)
So neither of your parents had bipolar disorder, but there was a genetic component.

Todd patkin (33:33.191)
Yeah, I don't know if she was bipolar, but definitely suffered from depression.

Christian Brim (33:39.81)
Yeah, and I think you're right. I mean, I think there is a chemical disposition that, you know, we're born with and there is a hereditary component. I know in my family there, I mean, definitely has been. And I mean, it doesn't sound like you had this problem, but for me, there was a lot of, I can't use a...

different word, was shame around like, you you and I are older, you know, the younger generations don't seem to have that stigma around mental health and mental wellness that that we grew up with.

Todd patkin (34:24.639)
Right. Although what's happening now is there's a rejection for antidepressants nowadays. They're refusing to take them. They're against anything that has anything for their bodies that isn't natural. So that's a big concern in mental health because many people need the pills and they're rejecting them more than any generation before them.

Christian Brim (34:30.604)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (34:48.833)
Yeah, I kind of understand where they're coming from. My daughter calls it raw dogging it. So she does not drink, she does not smoke, she does not take any medication and kind of, I don't know if that's a reaction to... Well, I would say generally good. I mean, but you know,

Todd patkin (35:11.142)
But how does she feel every day?

Todd patkin (35:16.826)
As raw dogging it sounds like she's pretty going through a really tough time.

Christian Brim (35:21.769)
she has for sure. But she's not at this point. And that's kind of what you were alluding to that, you know, life is situational. And and you know, you you run into those situations that are so stressful, that you know, you may not be able to get by on your own. mean, and that, you know, that's, that's important to recognize is that, you know,

Todd patkin (35:42.479)
Yeah. Right. The other thing is, know, bipolar is different than just suffering from depression. So if you do have people out there who are listening who are bipolar, I know quite a few of them who start medicine and stop medicine and start and stop. It's really dangerous to do that when you're bipolar.

Christian Brim (35:53.293)
100%.

Christian Brim (36:07.853)
Yes, I would agree. And I'd also say I think part of the reaction is that I think there's a general level of distrust in in medicine in pharmacy that exists with this younger generation that we didn't have like, yeah. You know,

Todd patkin (36:29.858)
Agreed.

Christian Brim (36:34.281)
And some of that the industries have brought on themselves, right? It's not like the distrust is without merit, but you can't really throw out the baby with bathwater. mean, you have to understand that there are good things as well as bad things. I think, like my uncle, my mother's brother,

Todd patkin (36:56.55)
. .

Christian Brim (37:00.365)
He was diagnosed with schizophrenia in his 20s and He was mostly a functioning adult lived into his 60s But he was always on medication and and he never you know, there is no cure for it And I think that's that's the key to understand is is that your your brain chemistry is permanent I mean you can alter it right with medication, but like who you are is who you are. You can't you know

Todd patkin (37:26.405)
Yeah, I agree.

Christian Brim (37:31.371)
work out and change it. It's not like a muscle.

Christian Brim (37:38.606)
I personally, one of the things that kind of bothers me, and I'm curious your perspective, psychiatry and brain chemistry is the only part of medicine that really, there is no hard and fast diagnosis. It's not like you can do a blood test and figure out what your brain chemistry is, right? It's largely based upon observation.

You know, the psychiatrist talks to you, watches you, figures out, okay, this is what I think is going on with you. But there's a certain element of guesswork when it comes to the human brain.

Todd patkin (38:22.03)
There is something called the horse shack test for bipolar.

Christian Brim (38:25.909)
Okay, and did you have that assessment done before your breakdown?

Todd patkin (38:34.276)
No, no, no prior to my breakdown. I didn't feel any stress or depression very much I didn't college a bit but no it was only after I had a breakdown that I went to the psychiatrist and we did some testing and he said I'm bipolar

Christian Brim (38:50.721)
Did you immediately agree with that? mean, or was there some resistance to like, no, that's not me.

Todd patkin (38:58.677)
I'm pretty open to medications. take medicine, the doctor says I have a heart problem or cholesterol, or I take a lot of different pills and I'm very comfortable with that.

Christian Brim (39:09.133)
Okay, so there was no resistance as to, you you've got the wrong diagnosis here, Doc.

Todd patkin (39:15.349)
I really didn't have an issue with it, you know.

Christian Brim (39:17.421)
Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Well, Todd, I will put the links in the show notes for your 12 step. I say 12 step. It's 12 week program. Sorry about that. How do people connect with you if they want to learn more about you speaking or whatever you can bring to the table?

Todd patkin (39:30.307)
Perfect. Perfect.

Todd patkin (39:37.86)
They can go to Toddpatkin.com if they want to listen to the videos or download the workbook. If they're interested in my speaking and they can email me, my first initial is T, my last name is Patkin, P-A-T-K-I-N, at three initials, T for Todd, G for Gerald, P for Patkin, C-O for company.org, Tpatkin at T-G-B-C-O.org.

Christian Brim (40:07.191)
Perfect. We'll have those links in the show notes. Thank you, Todd, for your sharing your experience and helping others. We appreciate it.

Todd patkin (40:10.615)
Thanks Chris, I really appreciate it.

Todd patkin (40:16.631)
Thanks, Tom. Take care.

Christian Brim (40:19.469)
Bye bye. Listeners, if you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember you are not alone.