Finding Your Purpose: Agi Keramidas

Summary

In this conversation, Agi Keramidas shares his journey from dentistry to personal development, discussing the challenges and realizations that led him to pursue a more fulfilling career. He reflects on the expectations set by family, the importance of self-discovery, and the role of coaching in personal growth. Agi emphasizes the significance of enjoying the journey rather than fixating on destinations, and he highlights the impact one can have on others as a measure of a life well-lived.

Takeaways

• Agi transitioned from dentistry to personal development after realizing it wasn't his true passion.
• He emphasizes the importance of self-discovery and following one's own path.
• Self-doubt is a common experience during career transitions.
• Enjoying the journey is crucial for personal fulfillment.
• The impact we have on others is a key measure of our lives.
• Clarity and courage are essential for making significant life changes.
• Coaching can help individuals uncover their own insights and blind spots.
• Change can disrupt relationships, but it's often necessary for growth.
• Agi's podcast, Personal Development Mastery, offers insights on these topics.
• Reflecting on one's life can lead to greater meaning and purpose. 

Want to be a guest on The Chris Project? Send Christian Brim a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/chrisproject

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.186)
Welcome to another edition of the Chris project. am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Aghi Karamadis. I probably mispronounced that again. Karamadis. Help me out, Aghi. Karamadis, I apologize. So, welcome to the show.

Agi Keramidas (00:13.963)
Keramidas, yes.

Agi Keramidas (00:20.577)
Thank you very much, it's a pleasure to be here.

Christian Brim (00:23.616)
So why don't you start by telling the audience who you are, what you do, kind of a brief CV.

Agi Keramidas (00:33.929)
Okay, so I am Greek originally. That explains the difficulty in pronouncing my name. I lived in Greece. I was born and live in Greece until I was 35, around 35 years old, where I decided to move to the UK, where I'm still at over 15 years afterwards. My originally, background, my professional background, I mean, is...

Dentistry. So I trained as a dentist. I practiced dentistry back in my home country for about 10 years. And then I moved to the UK. I carried on practicing dentistry. At some point in my, when I entered my 40s, I went through a

let's say, I won't call it the crisis, but let's say a transformation or some changes in my life as it happens to many people, if not all. And that started steering me away from dentistry, which I realized at that time that it was never a real passion of me. It was something that was to a large extent imposed on me by my parents, my mother in particular, who was a dentist. So I, you know, followed the

Christian Brim (01:32.034)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (01:56.897)
that particular profession because of her. So in my forties, I realized that this is not what I'm passionate about. And certainly this is not what I would like to keep on doing for the rest of my career, shall we say. So at that time, I discovered personal development. And I started reading books, going to seminars. I went to Tony Robbins.

Christian Brim (02:08.364)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (02:12.759)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (02:18.519)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (02:25.692)
one thing after the other and then I started a podcast about personal development and gradually I steered away from dentistry and into the world of podcasting and personal development coaching mentoring and now I have fully transitioned it took a it took a while for my transition but I have transitioned to something that is really fulfilling

you know something that I enjoy doing that which was never the case with you know having to go to the dental practice every morning. That's a brief overview.

Christian Brim (03:08.619)
I've had, well, thank you for sharing that. I've had many dentists in my life, some very, very kind people. I've never met someone that was truly passionate about dentistry. But I mean, I'm sure they exist.

Agi Keramidas (03:22.738)
I have and I respect them and I admire them and I would love, I would have loved to be one of them but I wasn't.

Christian Brim (03:30.627)
Yeah, well, I found something I want to tug on. We talked in the green room about how the show would go, I listen, and then I find something interesting, and I tug. And this idea of starting a career path based upon others' expectations. I had a dear friend, he has since passed, that his family

His siblings were all doctors and his dad was a doctor and you know, there was this high expectation of going into the profession and You know David God love him. He just wasn't smart enough to get into medical school. So he decided the next best thing would be to be a lawyer and

So so he was a lawyer and and for that reason, you know I mean he talked about like how he was still kind of looked down on by his family Like he was a professional but he buttoned the doctor and and kind of carried that burden around for a while You know a long while and I remember having lunch with him. you know a long time ago and He he was just describing this like I I just hate law

I hate what I do. And I'm like, well, why don't you do something else? And he goes, you know, I don't know. He said, I really think I would like to be a teacher. And I'm like, interesting. Well, it took several years for him to gain the courage, but he decided to become a teacher, leave the profession of law.

And he only lived about five years after that transition to a middle school civics and history teacher. those five years of his life were like, it just like the butterfly came out of the cocoon. He finally found his passion. He coached their baseball team there at the middle school and he eventually succumbed to cancer.

Christian Brim (05:53.027)
But, and at his funeral, to this date, it's the largest funeral that I've ever personally attended because of all the students that his past students and current students that came because he had such an impact on them. And, you know, his widow and I are still friends and we talk and I talk a lot about like, should he have made, could he have made that decision earlier?

But it sounds like you had a similar expectation set to you by your parents, by your mother. You've done the personal development. What are your reflections on that?

Agi Keramidas (06:41.111)
It's a big, big topic here. Let me start with this. one could have taken a decision earlier than when they take it. Maybe. But that's purely theoretical because we never do things before we actually do them. We might contemplate on it. mean, if I personally, if I would go back and do things again.

I would really have loved to take that decision earlier on. But I know it doesn't work like that. I mean, I had to go through these particular experiences in my life, in my career, in the challenges that I had and grow as a person or have the specific experiences that allowed me to take the decision exactly when...

Christian Brim (07:15.032)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (07:39.672)
it was the right, I will say quote unquote the right time for me to to take it. So that's you know in a nutshell that's a reflection on me but the other thing that comes to my mind is

Christian Brim (07:42.007)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (08:01.407)
on reflection again. We only live one life, at least in this particular body. Maybe we live different lives, but not... I will never live my life as Agi Keramidas again, that's for sure. So we have a finite amount of time to do some things and the moment we realize that...

Christian Brim (08:07.448)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (08:27.147)
that the clock is ticking and living our life according to someone else's expectations, the sooner we realize that, the better it is for us to at least take some control, that it is... at the very end it is our life, we're not here to fulfill someone else's expectations, no one else's. It is for us to experience

Christian Brim (08:34.441)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (08:56.745)
some particular elements, some growth, you know, everything that life has to offer, the good things and the bad things as well.

Christian Brim (09:09.538)
Did your mother push back on your decision or did she have an opinion about your decision?

Agi Keramidas (09:19.393)
She certainly had an opinion. She didn't push back very much. Initially, she did a bit. But, you know, I was... When your son is in their forties, you have little power of influence over them. And also, because I live in England and she lives in Greece, there was also the lack of physical proximity. So we wouldn't see each other so often. So there was little that...

Christian Brim (09:43.714)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (09:49.236)
she could do and you know soon it didn't take her long to realize that this is what Aggie wants to do so I was blessed that she supported me and still does.

Christian Brim (10:01.335)
So two follow-up questions. Do you think that you needed to be physically away from her to make that decision? okay, all right, good, all right. The second question is, do you think you may have misinterpreted her expectations? I mean, as far as, you know,

Agi Keramidas (10:10.974)
No.

Christian Brim (10:27.903)
Now having made this transition and had conversations with her and she's obviously okay with it. Did, did you think maybe you misunderstood what her expectation was?

Agi Keramidas (10:41.675)
her expectations at what point do you mean? At the point of the transition or when I was about to go to uni?

Christian Brim (10:49.741)
when you made that transition.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there's a lot of stories we tell ourselves, right? And we make rationalizations for our behavior. And I can see where people have these expectations that really are set by others, but it's not necessarily true. We haven't confronted that person to say, is this really what you expect of me?

Agi Keramidas (11:00.119)
Hm, indeed.

Agi Keramidas (11:25.633)
I understand the question. think before I would even consider whether her expectations of me at that time were indeed the ones that I thought they were, the layer behind that was my own clarity or lack of clarity of whether that was indeed the right thing for me or not. I mean up to

a point when I started getting out of dentistry and going a little bit into part-time, going from five days to four days and so on. Until that point I thought that it's okay, it's a good job, I am respected, I earn good money, I have people that, you know, I help with their oral health or their confidence or whatever else that I have.

help them with. Fair enough I might not you know enjoy it very much but well most people are like that. That's what I knew that was my mindset was at that time so because of that it was probably irrelevant what her expectations were I mean her expectations came into play when I realized that no this is not what I want to do anymore and then I started thinking

Christian Brim (12:43.595)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Agi Keramidas (12:53.73)
watch the pushback I might encounter if I do that. I hope that makes sense.

Christian Brim (13:02.669)
No, it does. mean, so, so what you're saying is you needed to get clarity for yourself. and only when you had that clarity, did you start questioning like, okay, why am I doing what I'm doing? Like, yeah. Okay. what, you know, making that transition, what were some of the, the struggles that potentially were like,

No, I shouldn't do this. I should stick with dentistry. Did you ever encounter that situation where like, I'm not sure this is going to work out.

Agi Keramidas (13:43.821)
all the time. I think what I have come to realize is that this... I would call it self-doubt. What you just described, I will put it into the term self-doubt. I think that is something that happens to everyone. It happens to all of us. There is that voice that questions whether the path that we choose is indeed the right path or we can make it or if we're good enough...

Christian Brim (13:53.663)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (14:12.738)
that so I think that's where it begins with the self-doubt element so yeah maybe we can maybe we can go toward that direction

Christian Brim (14:25.761)
Sure, let's unpack that. think you're right that self-doubt is something that sticks with you. I know, I find it surprising having had some amount of success as an entrepreneur, how the

the ground shifts still happen in that it's like, okay, have I done all I could do? Or could I do more? Could I be better? Even having achieved success. In other words, it always feels like they're moving the goalposts to use an American analogy, know, that it's okay, well,

You can make it from this distance, now we're going to move, move it, you know, 10 yards back. is that a similar experience for you?

Agi Keramidas (15:39.681)
I think to some extent moving the goalpost as you said is something that especially people that are entrepreneurs or high achievers or they appreciate personal growth in some way or another. is something to some extent inevitable because we tend to set a goal. I like very much the analogy of you a mountain you climb a mountain you put all your effort you

eventually reach the the top of the mountain you enjoy that for a few minutes or a few days perhaps and then you look at the next mountain which is higher so it does tend to go on and on and perpetuate in that sense and i believe that is something that many experience

Christian Brim (16:22.08)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (16:40.44)
I can't say this is right or this is wrong. I think in a way it is natural because we can't, especially, you people that want to grow and appreciate growth, reaching the top of the mountain or a certain level of success in their business or whatever it is, is satisfying once you do it and then we start thinking, so now what?

it's natural to want to evolve, if I can put it like that. Of course there is also, there are also traps in this, because if you continuously keep on moving the goalpost, the one risk or danger that that involves is that you are never satisfied with what you have achieved. You keep on going more and more and there's never an end to this.

Christian Brim (17:08.461)
Yes.

Christian Brim (17:33.581)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (17:38.007)
We

Christian Brim (17:38.196)
No, no, I mean, you I think I think entrepreneurs tend to use money as a scorecard oftentimes when comparing to you know, their peers, and you can always find someone that's made more money. I guess unless you're Elon Musk. But there might still be right like I mean it but but the the the point being that

Agi Keramidas (17:59.683)
think there is someone that has even more than probably.

Christian Brim (18:07.661)
If that's your measure of satisfaction, you're doomed to failure. I think also listening to you and reflecting, I think one of the things that I did a poor job of was enjoying the journey. To your point, this striving towards whatever, it doesn't have to be, so it could be that you

had a transformation and you're pursuing something that resonates more with you, like in your case, right? There's still the striving element, right? And goal orientation and outcome orientation. But not enjoying the ride, not enjoying the process because that's where you spend the vast majority of your life, not on top of the mountain, right? Or at the bottom of the mountain.

You spend most of your time climbing.

Agi Keramidas (19:09.634)
Definitely and that's something that it has taken me a while to realize that for myself that it is all about is everything is about the journey. It's not a destination the destination at best would last a short amount of time before it is replaced by another destination.

So the amount of time that has taken you to reach that destination, let's say it's two years or three years, that is exactly the journey and the day-to-day, the appreciation of what we're doing, our progress, our mistakes, our failures, our learnings, everything is all part of it. And that is certainly, in my opinion, what matters.

most of course keeping the destination as a beacon to go towards too but as you said that will only last very little time in terms of know satisfaction

Christian Brim (20:22.125)
Yes, I went to a friend's, long time friend's father's funeral yesterday. it's, Solomon said in Proverbs, better to be in the house of mourning than in a house of celebration. I thought that truly is a very wise

proverb because when you go to a funeral, it forces you, well, I guess you don't have to, but you have the opportunity to reflect, right? And the pastor said a statement that I thought was profound. said, you live your funeral. you know, how your funeral, how people are going to

sit there when you're gone and reflect on what you've done and what kind of person you are, you can't cover up what you've done. Like the preacher can't sit there and put a good face on a bad life, right? Like they, and,

I left that funeral thinking to myself, you know, I want to be more like Jim, you know, his dad, because his life was simple and impactful and faithful.

At the end of the day, when people are at my funeral, that's what I want them to say about me. I don't want them to talk about what he achieved or didn't achieve because that's irrelevant. It's like, how did you impact people? Like that to me is the barometer of a life well lived. Did you do the good works and take care of others?

Agi Keramidas (22:40.121)
I agree, certainly the impact that you have made to other people is very much more important.

anything that you might have achieved or money that you made or anything like that and I also you know when you said about the opportunity for reflection at a funeral I do believe it is a I will I used to do it actually now that we're bringing it you brought it up I realized that it's been a little while since I've done it I used to do once a year

take half a day off and go somewhere on my own with only my journal and nothing else and pretend that it's the last day of my life that I just had, you know, a diagnosis that, you know, you have five hours to live. That's it. And that...

Christian Brim (23:42.017)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (23:46.948)
forces if you allow the process because it is not an easy process to really think about your own death and most people or many people anyway don't really think about it's a passing thought which usually they try to avoid the thought like if if you avoid the thought like you are going to avoid death which is not the case so the more you think about it I think it is

Christian Brim (23:48.087)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:56.631)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (24:07.885)
Sure, absolutely.

Christian Brim (24:13.069)
Correct.

Agi Keramidas (24:17.037)
better because death gives you more reason to find meaning in what you do with your life before that inevitability that will happen and obviously at one's funeral and that's also part of the exercise that I was doing is how people will remember you, us and whether you were saying earlier about

Christian Brim (24:24.769)
Yes.

Agi Keramidas (24:49.913)
the students that it was so many because of the impact that their teacher had on them. And I think that is really...

Christian Brim (24:52.169)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Christian Brim (24:56.279)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (25:03.053)
the point of, you know, having lived a life according to one's desire, according to one's fulfillment. Because you think that personal fulfillment and making a difference in other people's lives are perhaps not the same thing, but they go in a parallel direction.

Christian Brim (25:27.329)
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people think about their life too superficially, right? And to the extent that they do think about how they impact people, they may think about it vocationally, like, well, I'm a dentist and I helped people live healthier lives because I took care of their mouth. And that's true. I mean, but we all that are working

are doing that in some way, right? Like everybody contributes to the well-being of someone else just by existing and working, right? Yeah, I mean, yes. mean, unless you're like a trained assassin or something, then maybe not. But I think that process you mentioned is profound because, you know,

Agi Keramidas (26:05.476)
hopefully.

Christian Brim (26:24.045)
An alternative would be, you know, write your own obituary. What does that look like? And it's not to dwell on it, but to your point, it focuses what you're doing now, right? I read about some monastery, I don't know if it was historical or current, where the monks actually built their own coffins.

Agi Keramidas (26:28.633)
Hmm?

Christian Brim (26:49.901)
And it was an exercise in exactly what you're talking about. Like what is your life going to be about? And when you're younger, when you have a family and kids, it's easier to not really think about those things because you're busy. I totally understand that. And you were in your 40s and...

I was in my late 40s, early 50s when I started this journey. There has to be space. And kind of to your referencing back to what you said, could you have done it earlier? Maybe. But it's time when it's time. And as the old Chinese proverb says, the teacher will appear when the student is ready.

Agi Keramidas (27:43.907)
you

Christian Brim (27:44.511)
And so you can't learn something until you're ready to learn it.

Agi Keramidas (27:52.238)
Definitely. And I certainly think that...

thinking well I could have done something else or I could have done this earlier is purely theoretical and it is

something that it can cause regret hopefully when one has realizes that i could have done that earlier it gives them and brings them regret it also hopefully it that regret can be

Christian Brim (28:16.503)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (28:32.282)
transmuted into some motivation to do something about it so that there isn't regret. Whereas when you reach the end of your life, any regrets you have, is nothing you can do about it anymore. It's too late.

Christian Brim (28:47.405)
True. So I'm gonna pivot here for a minute and tell me what it is. Do you work primarily with entrepreneurs or dentists or who do you primarily work with?

Agi Keramidas (29:03.802)
Not necessarily dentists. Yes, it is professionals, I will just put it like that, that have achieved a certain level of external success. The stability, the career, the family, the house, the car, whatever else. Success. I like to call it external success.

Christian Brim (29:29.485)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (29:31.663)
But despite all that, you know, having ticked all the boxes of what success should look like, there is something missing. And that something is internal. It is some kind of... perhaps it is dissatisfaction or restlessness internal or a void or, you know, there are different feelings or things that you can express this as. So...

Christian Brim (29:42.218)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (30:00.268)
This is the main focus to allow someone to realize that there is a different path that one could take if they decide to, that is more, let's say, aligned to who they are internally, to their values, to their inner desires, and then get...

clarity on the path there and clarity and courage also I think also courage is something very important because changing path in life it's not always easy use more often than not it is hard

Christian Brim (30:44.832)
No.

Yes. And I would say my own personal journey that that that change that occurred, you know, seven or eight years ago, uh, that started seven or eight years ago, uh, was much more difficult than anything else I'd done, uh, including like starting the business and raising a family and

I will tell you, I think one of the reasons why it's hard is because, you know, a lot of times you have people in your life that have an expectation of you, right? They're expecting you to behave a certain way. And when you start to make those changes, it disrupts their life. And that doesn't mean that you're doing it to hurt them, like, you know, they, no one thrives

On on chaos, right? I mean there's a book by that name that that's you know, thriving on chaos, which I'm just saying your natural inclination is when the ground starts shifting around you people start acting differently It's unsettling right like what and and so even if that behavior was bad, right? Like even if you're happy with the changes that they make it's still it's still awkward because it's not predictable and and people like

particular.

Agi Keramidas (32:17.178)
There is a big element of uncertainty there. Yes, it is not predictable and the other people, I suppose it depends on how they perceive change themselves. for me and for you who we appreciate personal development and growth and change, if I show someone, a friend of mine,

Christian Brim (32:20.976)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:34.125)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (32:45.85)
or you know a family member going into another direction because that's what he or she wants to do and that's what being called. I would personally look at it much more favorably. I would actually encourage them towards that. But we know very well that this is not everyone is like that. Probably more, most people aren't. So there is a great resistance.

Christian Brim (33:00.81)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:09.087)
Most people aren't like that. Yeah, no, I agree.

Christian Brim (33:14.551)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (33:14.746)
to change and if they see others changing that as you said it shakes some kind of foundation because there is uncertainty there is and there's also the fear I would say that if you change and you evolve and go something else what about me that means that I could I would probably need to do that as well but but I don't want to because I have a fixed mindset and

Christian Brim (33:37.261)
Cheers.

Agi Keramidas (33:44.75)
I like things to be predictable and how they are. And that can create friction. can also create a break in relationships. But that is part of the process, I suppose.

Christian Brim (33:55.223)
Yes.

Christian Brim (33:59.276)
Absolutely.

Christian Brim (34:05.036)
Yes. How many people come to you to work with you and end up making a large change, like a career change or a family change?

a life change.

Agi Keramidas (34:20.939)
the majority I think that is the changes that you know and the big changes if it is a small change then the value of coaching into that yes there's still value in that but it is not the same let's say I want to make a change what can I put like I want to to stop drinking alcohol for example that is a change for that is

much much smaller change for one to make even though it can have massive results outcomes by doing it but as a change it's very small than you know stopping your job that you were doing and doing something else or you know moving to another country or splitting up with your spouse or whatever other change you feel compelled to do so

yeah it's the big changes I think that are most...

useful to have someone... I will use the word guide it's not necessarily a matter of you know guide means there you go not necessarily like that but having some companion along the way that can show you your blind spots give you some external perspective of what you were doing because we're very bad at being honest or

I will leave the honest, I will correct the word. We're very bad at being objective with ourselves. So having someone, a third party, show us or hold a mirror in front of us, say this is what you do, this is what you just said right now, I think it's very helpful, very beneficial. It allows us to see who we are, really.

Christian Brim (36:20.322)
Do you still use a coach yourself? Yes, and I think that that is a key barometer in engaging a coach is do they themselves still obtain coaching because it sets the expectation that it's like, you use the word guide. Like the guide,

Agi Keramidas (36:22.768)
this.

Christian Brim (36:49.64)
is the Sherpa up the mountain. Look, I've been doing this all my life. I know how to do it. I can show you how to do it. As opposed to a coach understands that... Let me back up a second. When I say coach, I'm not talking about someone that is going to teach you a skill, right?

That is a type of coaching and being a guide in those situations is absolutely a form of coaching. When I speak of coaching, I'm talking about the infinite possible, right? Like this is not like I've been there, I'm gonna show you the way necessarily. It is I'm on this journey with you. I think as a coach,

And that's why I think if your coach doesn't have a coach, then they're probably not going to have that same paradigm with you. It's gonna be more of a guide kind of thing. Yeah? Would you agree with that?

Agi Keramidas (38:03.725)
I agree of course it is... you know it came to me when you were saying that it came to my mind like if you go to a dentist that his teeth are rotten it is similar you the person that you trust to help you with something has to have the same kind of way of looking at things that what they teach you so I think a coach that does not

Christian Brim (38:14.158)
Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (38:33.167)
have codes.

It's kind of, for me, it raises some red flags. I I want to coach you, but I don't want to be coached. There is some red flags there.

Christian Brim (38:44.482)
Yeah, no, agree. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, there, there, it seems like, you know, the last decade, there has been this explosion of coaches out there and, and the term has become very confused in the marketplace. to me, the definition of a coach that what, what, what I'm looking for out of a coach is someone that

Agi Keramidas (39:02.779)
Yes.

Christian Brim (39:14.242)
will help me gain clarity about myself. Not like, you mentioned blind spots, that's absolutely part of it. But it's also getting it out of my own head and being able to unpack it. And it's fascinating to me. Like I'm reflecting back on my call with my coach last week and.

Agi Keramidas (39:20.379)
Yes.

Christian Brim (39:41.966)
He had nothing to do with the gem of insight that I came to. I came to this perfect analogy and how I was showing up as a leader. And it was all my own experience, right? This whole analogy that I, but.

what he did was he gave the space and asked the questions that brought me to that. And so the second thing that I think a coach does is it helps draw out what's already in you. It's not about putting something into you so much as it is drawing out what's already there.

Agi Keramidas (40:30.325)
I agree and the word that comes to my mind when you say that is the word insight. So you can't give me any insights, I can't give you any insights. The insight, the word says it, comes from in, from inside. But the coach can facilitate or as you said hold the space with the appropriate questions to allow one to have that insight and...

Christian Brim (40:35.629)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (40:42.305)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Agi Keramidas (41:00.059)
you know, we... I think we all know it when you have... it's like a light bulb, something such as, my God, I got it now. That can't come from an external person, it can only come from within. It's the insight, the inner wisdom that gets revealed.

Christian Brim (41:07.489)
Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (41:18.891)
Yes. Yes. Because if, if someone tells you, okay, you're, this is what I see. This is about your behavior and this is what you should do about it. Well, that's advice. And, and you may or may not, even listen to it, probably won't act on it because at the end of the day, high achievers and entrepreneurs are, are independent. Right. And, so.

We don't like necessarily people coming in and telling us what to do. And oftentimes like me, I actively resist it. Like, don't tell me what to do. I'll do what I want to do, damn it. And so that dynamic doesn't work, right? And that to me is more of like what a lot of coaches do is like I'm...

I'm going to teach you how to do this thing. I'm going to show you about your behavior and this is how you need to modify it. That doesn't that doesn't stick with most entrepreneurs.

Agi Keramidas (42:26.372)
No, it doesn't stick and I think the... word that comes to mind that sometimes, often the two words get confused but they're not the same, is the word mentor. So mentor and I do also mentor but I can only mentor someone and tell them what to do if I have done exactly the same thing, I have really walked on those steps and I can tell them...

Christian Brim (42:46.017)
Yes.

Agi Keramidas (42:52.208)
with certainty that you know what this is what you do. For example, I have a podcast, a personal development mastery, which has close to 550 episodes. I can mentor someone if you wanted to start a podcast, I can tell you, you need to do this, this and that. But that is different. That is not coaching in that sense. And I know that often people confuse those things and...

I think it's worse when the coaches themselves confuse those things and as you were saying rather than creating the space to elicit the insight from the client to stuff them with knowledge or actions or information which it may be perfectly all right but perhaps that's not what the other person needs.

Christian Brim (43:52.258)
Yeah, I mean, I was having this conversation with my coach last week. mean, like, if you think about professional athletes, and they have coaches, they all have coaches. Most of them, not just team coaches, but individual coaches, right? And it's this false idea that the coach has to have something that they can give the player.

Or you know in our case the entrepreneur No, that coach is not there to teach Tiger Woods how to swing the golf club. That's that's not his job, right? but I think a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs have that expectation that like you're gonna teach me how to do X Y & Z because you know and and

Sure, there those people are out there and and some of that is beneficial, but the real benefit is to be able to draw out your natural talent and and keep you from Shooting yourself in the foot for instance, you know like Helping you see those blind spots to say, you know It's it's not your swing. That's the problem, right? Your head is the problem

And for coaches, like this idea that like, well, I have to have done X, Y, and Z in order to be a coach to others. No, that's not necessarily true. It's not.

Agi Keramidas (45:26.98)
Generally, yeah, I do believe there is some element of having, you know, needing to have some kind of experience, personal experience of what you are coaching. I mean, yes, you mentioned Tiger Woods and his coach. Yes, his coach is not most likely not a better golf player than him.

But definitely they know golf, they know how to play golf. I have never played golf in my life. So no matter how good a coach I am, would be... Let's say it would not be very efficient. Certainly would not be a powerful coaching trying to coach someone on their golf skills.

Christian Brim (45:57.762)
Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (46:18.389)
Yes, no the skill component. Yes, but I think you could definitely address the mindset right and I agree you have to have experience but I I don't I don't think it has to be this Like I I want to achieve x therefore. I need to go find someone that has done that right to be the coach that's more of a mentor relationship what you're talking about like, you know, I want to become the next elon musk so i'm gonna go

see if he'll mentor me, right? Aghi, how do people find out more about working with you and what you do?

Agi Keramidas (46:57.5)
My invitation to your listener would be to check out my podcast, Personal Development Mastery, where I do discuss all those things and I, you know, offer the options of where one can find me and connect with me and, you know, work together if they choose to. So my podcast is Personal Development Mastery and you can listen to it.

wherever you listen after this conversation ends, check it, type it up and find it.

Christian Brim (47:33.259)
Yes, well listeners will have that link in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time, remember you are not alone.