Unplugging from the Matrix: Katie Krimitsos

Summary

In this episode, Christian Brim interviews Katie Krimitsos, founder of the Women's Meditation Network. They discuss Katie's journey into entrepreneurship, the transformative power of meditation, and the challenges of navigating the entrepreneurial landscape. Katie shares her insights on self-awareness, the importance of embracing pain and suffering for growth, and the loneliness often felt by entrepreneurs. The conversation emphasizes the need for vulnerability and connection in the entrepreneurial community, as well as the significance of following one's intuition. 

Takeaways

• Katie is passionate about empowering women through meditation.
• Meditation helps distinguish between external noise and internal voice.
• Choosing the harder path often leads to greater alignment with oneself.
• Suffering is a part of the human experience that shapes us.
• Entrepreneurs often feel isolated in their journeys.
• Vulnerability is essential for authentic connections among entrepreneurs.
• Intuition plays a crucial role in making life-changing decisions.
• The Women's Meditation Network aims to provide support for women and children.
• Pain can be a powerful teacher in personal growth.
• Building a supportive community is vital for entrepreneurs.  The right questions can unlock personal power.
• Self-doubt is a universal human condition.
• Meditation can take many forms beyond traditional practices.
• Intuition plays a crucial role in business decisions.
• Self-awareness is key to personal growth.
• Feelings and beliefs are separate from our true selves.
• Creating stillness allows for deeper understanding.
• Women often connect with emotions more freely than men.
• Entrepreneurs must be willing to do the internal work.
• Everyone has the capacity for intuition and reflection.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.59)
Welcome to another episode of The Criss Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, Katie Kermitsos of the Women's Meditation Network. Katie, welcome.

Katie Krimitsos (00:13.758)
Christian, thank you so much for having me.

Christian Brim (00:15.82)
You've got to be awesome because you share the name with my firstborn. So you've got to be awesome.

Katie Krimitsos (00:21.214)
there you go. We're connected souls then.

Christian Brim (00:25.612)
Although she didn't spell it the same way. And now she just goes by cat instead of Katie. So Catherine's long gone. I'm the only one that calls her Catherine.

Katie Krimitsos (00:32.424)
Very nice. I like that.

I love it.

Christian Brim (00:38.872)
So Katie, tell the audience who you are, what you do.

Katie Krimitsos (00:43.23)
I am just a soul here on this world, like trying to live my light and express my light in the most authentic way. So the way that I do that is that I'm a mom to two beautiful young girls. I'm a wife to a very Greek husband, as you could tell by my last name.

Christian Brim (00:57.166)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (01:02.574)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (01:11.614)
I come from a very big family. I'm one of six. And I have always had a big drive for freedom, freedom of time, expression, choice, all that sort of stuff. I feel like that's been a pretty guiding part of my life. because of that, yeah, because of that, I kind of stumbled upon entrepreneurship.

Christian Brim (01:16.014)
Nice.

Christian Brim (01:26.637)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (01:30.082)
Well, you're American. Of course you're about freedom.

Katie Krimitsos (01:39.518)
when I was 22, that was the first time I heard that word. So relatively late, you know, in comparison to some of my other fellow entrepreneurs. And so it wasn't until I was about 30 that I officially like quit corporate and dove into the world of entrepreneurship. And through many, many, many iterations have constantly been guided by a desire to

really bring love and light for as cliche as that sounds, but really be able to bring something really special to women of the world. And the way that that has manifested most recently in the past seven years is through the Women's Meditation Network. So the Women's Meditation Network is a podcast network with 20 different podcasts that all provide guided meditations for women and kids. The last five that we launched were actually just for kids.

Christian Brim (02:09.87)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (02:32.31)
Nice.

Katie Krimitsos (02:36.597)
And it's because of my belief that meditation is a real powerful tool for self-awareness. And when we practice and use that tool, we can start really distinguishing the noise of the world from the voice inside. And when we take the time to do that, we actually start building a life that is 100 % ours and not scripted by anyone or anything else. So I'm incredibly passionate about the desire to

Christian Brim (02:52.536)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (03:05.063)
to give that tool to everyone, in particular under this particular brand and banner. Because I feel like when we do that, call me a little crazy and big in this regard. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm crazy. But I really believe that when each of us bravely actually acts on our intuition, our true knowing of what is good for us and right for us, knowing that that's never.

Christian Brim (03:18.956)
Well, you're an entrepreneur. You already said you were crazy.

Katie Krimitsos (03:32.702)
It doesn't mean that we're going to have this perfect like sunshine and rainbows life, right? But if we are truly honest with ourselves and who we are and our our souls desires, then and we bravely like start building that life. And number one, it a lot of a lot of times it looks like an entrepreneurial life. But number two, we start living really authentically and we stop caring about all the other crap. And I I tend to believe that that's pretty.

transformative for the world if we would all start doing that.

Christian Brim (04:07.126)
I have lots of questions, but I'm going to talk first. sorry. My wife and I were just having this conversation this morning and it's just been percolating for several months. And I finally told her this morning, said, we're unplugging from the matrix. She goes, what? I'm like, we're unplugging from the matrix. And she goes, I never saw the movie. And then I was like aghast. I'm like, what?

Katie Krimitsos (04:30.075)
I know exactly what you mean.

Katie Krimitsos (04:37.063)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (04:37.094)
What? And then I was trying to explain it to her and I'm like, no, we got to watch it because this movie was prescient in its time, because it's eerie how we've kind of morphed into this real life matrix. And I told her, I said, you know, there was this character that I just tried to give her the premise and I

Katie Krimitsos (04:57.191)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (05:03.98)
And I guess for the audience that hasn't seen it, your spoiler alert, you're out of luck, it's 20 years old. You know, the premise of the movie is that reality is not reality. We're in this simulation. And then, you know, some people are trying to get out of the simulation. But one guy finds out that, you know, he's in the simulation, but he sees what reality is.

And he's like, No, I'm gonna, I want to stay in the simulation, like I want to stay there. And I think that a lot of people are aware that they're in the matrix. But they don't really want reality either. So they just kind of choose the path least resistance, which it's lined up to keep you there to to stay there. So what are your thoughts on that?

Christian Brim (06:02.634)
Are we living in a matrix?

Katie Krimitsos (06:02.673)
I think you're... That's such a deep question. I know.

Christian Brim (06:10.136)
I'm not speaking holographically. Is it a holographic universe? Are we really living in a simulation? I'm not asking that question. Are we in a metaphorical matrix?

Katie Krimitsos (06:20.473)
Yeah. Well, to get to your point of why, let's just assume that that's the case to your point that there are many people who are at least aware of the matrix, but choose to stay in the simulation. I agree with you there. And I feel like it's because and I feel like every entrepreneur can nod their head at this and understand it's because it's painful. There's a lot of suffering if you opt out of the simulation.

Christian Brim (06:45.086)
Mmm. Mmm.

Katie Krimitsos (06:49.255)
There's a lot of work you have to do to opt out and you have to have an incredibly deep well of self-awareness and self-actualization, if you will. I think you need to be willing to see things completely differently. You have to be willing to see yourself very differently. You have to be willing to let go of ego and see ego and...

Christian Brim (06:49.271)
Mmm.

Katie Krimitsos (07:15.515)
That's hard. It's really hard. And I'll kind of bring this home with this point. My my nine year old, I was putting her to bed last night and she just looked at me with the most innocent eyes and randomly came through this question. Mom, why do bad things happen? And I immediately said, well. Ironically, I know we have a lot of really deep conversations at bedtime. It's sweet. And she and I said, well, first of all, where is there something that's

Christian Brim (07:29.815)
Mmm.

You have to ask this question at bedtime? Like, I mean, we need some time to unpack this.

Katie Krimitsos (07:44.496)
making you ask that question. Did did you hear that from somebody or something happening? And she's like, no, I don't know. Like just asking. And I told her, said, well, I believe that being part of human means that you have to suffer. And there might be some people who disagree with me on this, but these just happen to be my beliefs. And I said, I believe that we suffer. But the beautiful thing about suffering is that the suffering is here to help mold us into who we're meant to be. And.

Christian Brim (08:11.789)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (08:14.023)
Sometimes that means really hard and bad things happen. And I'm not trying to sugarcoat and tell you, you know, the solution to every bad thing, but I'm trying to tell you that that you can have an attitude of seeing bad things as being part of your journey here. And if you choose to have that attitude, it's going to continue to mold you into the best version of yourself here. So I'm saying that because in relation to this conversation.

You mentioned the statement of the path of least resistance. I think that that's it. think the path of the harder path, right? It's all about the road you choose, right? The harder path in our world of entrepreneurship. It would have been so much easier, quote unquote, for me to stay in corporate. It would have been so much easier for me to, you know, the origin story of the Women's Meditation Network. I won't go into it, but it happened seven years ago and I was already a success.

Christian Brim (09:09.43)
Why not? Let's go into it.

Katie Krimitsos (09:11.281)
Well, so I'll give you the kind of the overview story, which was I was a podcast. I was an entrepreneur since 2009. And, you know, my husband and I owned a local entrepreneurs organization. And so we would, you know, bring in education for our hundreds of members to help them better run their companies. So somewhere along the way, we.

We sort of some one of those speakers was talking about podcasting totally ignited a fire under our belly. And in early 2014, I started my very first podcast and it was called Biz Women Rock. I was an entrepreneur's support like I was a business coach, a strategist for women entrepreneurs. Right. It took me a long time to figure out that business model because I was relatively new to it and and

Christian Brim (09:51.758)
Thanks for

Katie Krimitsos (10:06.033)
All that sort of stuff. had my first daughter during that season. It was wonderful. Things were going really, really well. Things were finally clicking into place a couple of years later. And in 2018, had big, you know, was starting the year off with really big plans to triple the growth, triple the reach, triple the revenue. And it was going very well until we found out we were pregnant with our second. And then just immediately, like this deep knowing kind of

like happened and I was like, I'm done with that business. And it was very scary because that was a very like solid business and supported our family. And it was very scary because a week before I loved it and I was ready to go towards all the dreams. And yet here was my intuition saying like, you're done, Katie, you're done. So I took a lot of time. What amounted to a couple of probably like five or six weeks, I really would just like.

I paused, you know, I would still do what I needed to do for the company to keep things moving, but I wasn't launching anything new, striving anything. And in that time, I would go on walks with my husband every single day, you know, just sorting everything out and just like sort of like vomiting all of the scenarios and ideas and what ifs and all this sort of stuff. And one day, a couple of weeks into it, I finished, you know, my little rant about whatever. And he says, what about that meditation idea?

And I said, what about it? And what he was referring to was months prior when I was creating my annual plan, I sort of had a side item on my, you know, big giant poster board of like, yeah, let's create, let's build out the other podcasts, you know, and I could do a meditation for women podcast. That'd be super cool. But I never did anything with it because it didn't really align with, you know, that particular brand and business. So now here he was four or five months later saying, what about that meditation idea? And I was like, well, what about it? And he said, what about it?

And that was the seed that was planted for the Women's Meditation Network because within an hour I could completely see the vision. I could see that it could be the next evolution of my work with women in the world. I'm a writer. I could see that I could write these beautiful scripts. It could be sort of this alignment of all of these things. You know, they say the dots don't make sense until you can look back, right? So all of a sudden, like, I've been a podcaster already, got that down. I'm a writer. I could write these scripts. I, you know, I know great producers. could...

Christian Brim (12:23.393)
Right.

Katie Krimitsos (12:30.013)
put I've been meditating. know meditation. So like I could create this and I could be that person because back in 2018 when you searched for meditation and women in your podcast player, there was one that showed up that had those words in it. And so I was like, there's no way I have to be here. Like I have something to say here. I think that women just like me are searching and if they find themselves in what they're looking for, I could be there to speak love into their souls. So I say that.

I'm forgetting the main point that I brought this up for, but the point is, is it would have been easier for me to not listen to that intuition. It would have been easier for me to stay with what was and to, you know, go with what everyone else expected me to do. And even my past version of myself expected me to do. But the harder choice is always the one that I believe is most aligned with us. And it is the one that

Christian Brim (13:08.088)
Yes.

Katie Krimitsos (13:27.429)
starts to whisper, eventually screams if we stop listening to it, if we don't listen to it and we suppress it. I think this is a harder road, but to actually be aligned, to follow intuition, to listen to yourself, to take action based on what your gut actually knows versus what has been told to you. And that's why people want to stay in the simulator, because it's hard. And

and you'll get hate, you'll get people won't understand what you're doing. You'll have pain, you'll have suffering. But I believe because of what I told my daughter that that's all here for us. It's all part of what carves us into these beautiful, unique diamonds that we're all supposed to be.

Christian Brim (14:14.702)
Yeah, again, I've got so many thoughts. Yes, I will resonate back to you that I do agree that...

Pain is a tool for growth if we allow it. Even even things that are not like

or maybe especially things that we didn't have any culpability in. So like, you know, a child gets sick or a spouse gets sick or you get sick. mean, like an unexpected death, something that is painful that you couldn't avoid. It wasn't because you made a bad choice.

Katie Krimitsos (14:49.638)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (15:05.799)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (15:07.694)
where it doesn't make sense kind of where your daughter's question I think might have been coming from like Why do bad things happen? Like I didn't make a bad choice, but think bad things happen I agree with that. I think that even if nothing more than you learn that it's not the end of you that you are

not going to perish, but it teaches you the resilience and the ability to cope. You know, I referenced on the show a couple of times a book I read recently called What Happy People Happy People Know by Ken Baker, Dr. Ken Baker. Have you read the book? It's great book. I

Katie Krimitsos (16:02.717)
I have not yet, no.

Christian Brim (16:07.412)
And he lost, he's a psychologist by trade, and he lost his son prematurely. don't remember if he was born prematurely or he was born with a genetic disorder. In any case, he lost his son when he was an infant.

And it devastated him. And what what he what he learned was that he still had the love of his son. So so like, as soon as he started remembering his son, he felt those feelings like that he and he would always have that that that did not go that was not destroyed, right by his his death.

And he learned that he he could learn from that experience that he in fact was an optimist and his definition of an optimist is not Pollyanna it's it's I can endure the worst things like that and and yeah,

Katie Krimitsos (17:21.373)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (17:25.998)
And you can't unzip somebody's head and put that in there, right? Like you can only get that through experience.

Katie Krimitsos (17:34.939)
Yeah. Yeah, which

You know, I think it just comes back to a willingness to know thyself and

for, you know, the culture that we have right now gives us every reason not to. Gives us every reason to numb out whenever anything uncomfortable is felt or experienced. Gives us every opportunity to hide, to avoid. And so I love and respect those who do the internal work.

Christian Brim (18:06.67)
Hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (18:18.061)
and are asking those questions of themselves. Like, what is this really all about? What am I supposed to learn here? And we all go through the dark stuff. you mentioned a really interesting point of like, stuff that we have no, that we did not create, right? And let's just talk about the entrepreneurial journey for a second. You and I have talked about, it ain't all sunshine and rainbows. And there's some really dark,

especially like, you know, in this state of being able to label things as like mental wellness, right? So I have had innumerable dark seasons, dark moments, sometimes days, sometimes weeks, sometimes months of dark seasons of really like questioning, like, what am I doing? What's my purpose? Is this the right thing? I suck at this. you know, real dark and deep

Christian Brim (18:59.107)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (19:17.837)
of undoing, undoings. sometimes they're, you know, in the journey of my business, it has been sort of like triggered by whatever business stuff, right? Or like this business experience happened and now I'm letting that mean a whole hell of a lot of things about me. And so I have to do the inner work in order to like really come through that, you know?

Christian Brim (19:19.715)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (19:38.624)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Katie Krimitsos (19:46.142)
And I feel like so many of us entrepreneurs are not, we're oftentimes going through that very alone. And I don't think we do go through it alone on purpose. I think we go through it alone because there's a weird void of where to talk about it and where to hash it out. know, and normal, I hate that word normalized, but it's true. I have been really lucky in those dark times where my circle gets really small.

Christian Brim (19:54.259)
Yeah.

Katie Krimitsos (20:15.453)
And there's like one or two people that I can really like vomit all that stuff out with and who will not let me who will not let me fall and who will not let me take it on as my own by myself. You know what I mean? So that has been invaluable. But also out out of that. And the coming out of that is that has built that muscle over.

Christian Brim (20:21.57)
Right.

Katie Krimitsos (20:43.279)
and over and over again, the resilience like, hey, I don't care how much that thing just blew up and how responsible I am for that, but I'm going to learn something here and I'm going to be better for it. So yeah, I mean, just so many, there's so many examples of that and we all go through it.

Christian Brim (21:06.168)
Yeah, you talked about being alone. think being an entrepreneur can be one of the loneliest things in the world. One, because we're a minority in the truest sense and that, you know, like

Katie Krimitsos (21:19.677)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (21:26.028)
I remember going to a global entrepreneurs entrepreneurs organization event EO in Frankfurt, Germany. And there were these entrepreneurs from all over the world, literally. And what was fascinating to me was is that all different languages, different cultures, different businesses, different families. We all had

Katie Krimitsos (21:33.597)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:55.938)
very similar problems. And because because the entrepreneurs are not hiding around every corner, it's hard to find somebody that understands what you're going through what what your fears are, what your concerns are, which even your joys like I, you can't share all of your successes with just everybody because they're going to look at you and like, what does that mean? I mean, I don't get it.

Katie Krimitsos (22:24.925)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (22:25.998)
And a lot of people look at entrepreneurs of, like you make a lot of money, so what problems do you really have? Right? Yeah.

Katie Krimitsos (22:35.057)
Right, right. You've got it all figured out. You've got the numbers to prove it and yeah, but there's yeah.

Christian Brim (22:40.46)
Right. And I agree. I think one of the most important things and EO fills that void for a segment. But that is an absolute requirement that we have more places that entrepreneurs can go that their peers are willing to share those experiences.

Katie Krimitsos (22:51.495)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:11.33)
But then they have to be able to and and are willing to in that it can't be, you know, so many times I've been around groups of entrepreneurs, even in EO, where it's it's all peacocking. And it's you know what I've accomplished and what we're doing now and look at this great, great, great. And, you know, you have to be able to be vulnerable.

You have to be vulnerable, not just for yourself, but for others for that to really work. And if you're going to be vulnerable to your point, you've got to be able to do the work. And it's not easy. And I've known a lot of people that are entrepreneurs that aren't willing to do that. not, they're just, they're not willing to let their guard down. And as I say,

start asking the questions of like, why do I act the way that I do? Why do I think the way that I do? Why do I speak the way that I do?

Katie Krimitsos (24:13.757)
Mmm.

Katie Krimitsos (24:17.841)
Right. Yeah. But I think the fun thing for me is knowing that those questions, like the right questions can really unlock an enormous amount of power and beauty and light in each of us. For example, these very like business driven questions, meaning like, okay, why am I, why am I plateauing? What is going on in this plateau? I can't seem to kick past this.

I'm having these struggles, what have you. And if you actually start asking the right questions, which is what beliefs are happening inside of me that are telling me that this plateau is that are creating this plateau? So, you know, what what is what beliefs do I have or, you know, misbeliefs am I holding on to that are allowing me to experience externally less than what I know this that I'm capable of, you know?

Christian Brim (24:53.207)
Mmm.

Katie Krimitsos (25:15.489)
Or if I'm continuing to experience this problem right now, what is it that is making this problem like repeat? is inside of me that is allowing this problem to continue to attract towards me? So those are the questions I really love because that all again causes me to go inside and sort of unravel and take apart, you know, and I'll be really straight. Like, I think a common thread in my psyche from a kid.

is I'm not enough. I'm not enough. I'm not good enough, right? Like I've definitely got that. And I only know that because I've done an enormous amount of personal work to like dig that up. The good, the way that this has manifested in positive ways is that it has made me like this achiever, right? I was one of six kids. I need to be seen. So I'm going to be the achiever. I'm going to be the top athlete, the top academic, get all the awards, you know, get all that recognition because, know, psych,

of course, subconsciously, now I'm worthy, right? Now I'm enough, now that I've achieved these things. And in my life, I'm 46 now, so along the way in my life, especially in my entrepreneurial life, because it has forced me to do this internal work in order for me to actually create what I want to create over the years, it has become a question of like, okay, that is all...

these things are like worldly looking, good looking things. But what makes what is more important is where is the energy of my of my work and my like my energy to go towards something? Where is that coming from? Is that coming from this bucket of not enough? Katie's not enough. And so I now need to go prove to myself in the world that I am enough. Or is that coming from a bucket of I am whole and complete and who I am and I'm just on fire?

energetically to like move towards that. So I have to constantly make sure I'm sort of planted in the right bucket, if you will, to really like go towards my dreams. I say that because it's been so fascinating watching over the years that that I'm not good enough thing has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. It's still here. Like I still have little moments where it comes up. I'm like, that's really interesting. Like I have right now I'm

Christian Brim (27:39.148)
Yeah.

Katie Krimitsos (27:42.054)
I'm doing a complete reorg for like, I'm, you know, looking at our business, our production, obviously, like in our podcast network, but like all the other things that we are doing. And I'm doing a complete reorganization of like how we're doing things, who's in charge of what. And it's been fascinating to me when things don't happen easily. And I'm like, shoot, I have this like, I have this like wall that I'm hitting here and I just want to be able to fill this part in really, really easily. And it's not happening so easily.

I noticed the past couple of days, I'm like, man, that's bringing up some stuff in me of like self doubt and this not good enough thing. so nowadays I can just at least recognize that and not take it on as me. I can just recognize it and say, hey, you're great. You're doing a great job. You're whole. You're complete. You're total badass. You're exactly who this business needs. You're exactly in alignment with what the vision is and

everything where we're going. So just rest in that and then let like have some stillness so everything can fall into its place. know, so, you know, those are those are those things where if you're willing to ask those questions, if you're willing to see these triggers of frustration moments or goals you can't hit or things aren't working out or keep having this pain point, if you're willing to see those as little opportunities to open up and ask some deep questions about yourself.

Like, like the power that comes out of that is amazing.

Christian Brim (29:17.024)
I couldn't agree with you more. I agree that this this self doubt unworthiness or incomplete worthiness. I believe is a universal human condition. I don't think it's just entrepreneurs that feel that I think it it manifests itself differently for entrepreneurs because we step out more.

And so we have more opportunity to feel that as opposed to like staying in the status quo, you you're not going to have as many opportunities for failure. I think that.

The I just completely went blank on my thought. Give me a second here. Yeah, I know.

Katie Krimitsos (30:10.215)
Thanks.

Christian Brim (30:16.472)
me one second, because it was profound. At least I thought it was profound.

Well, it's just it's left me so we're going to move on. Maybe it'll come back.

Katie Krimitsos (30:26.525)
All right. I love when that happens. Oh, and of course, it's going to like tomorrow at like 135 in the afternoon.

Christian Brim (30:35.03)
Yeah, it'll keep me up tonight. yeah, this is what I should have told Katie or Katie definitely needed to hear this. No, I mean, I think think I think what I was thinking is is that this this self doubt that we have drives us initially. But I think that you talked about misbeliefs and and

I've never heard that term. I mean, like beliefs, drive our actions, usually subconsciously. If we're willing to understand that these beliefs that we have, and these feelings that we have, so like the feeling of inadequacy, or the belief that that is driving our behavior are separate from us. They're not part of us.

they're not who we are. That gives us so much power because then we can separate from them and deal with them. So like this feeling, okay, I'm feeling this feeling, okay, I want to feel a different way. One of the most powerful tools my business coach ever gave me was like, and it was it was around we were working on my marriage.

And he was, you know, I was in a bad place when I was having this conversation with him he's like, Can you remember a time when you felt at complete peace with your wife? And I was like, Yeah, and I remembered it was we were sitting at the park on a Sunday afternoon watching the kids play and it was a beautiful day and I'm like, but as I recalled that memory, my feeling changed.

Katie Krimitsos (32:28.455)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:29.26)
Right? And so the reality is, that feelings are not all that we crack them up to be, right? They come, they go, they can be manipulated. And the same thing with beliefs. The term misbelief implies that it's somehow wrong. But I try to think of it just just agnostic. Like, I'm not going to argue with myself whether that belief is true or not true, or worthwhile or not worthwhile.

Katie Krimitsos (32:37.031)
Mm-mm.

Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (32:55.707)
Right, right. But is it serving me?

Christian Brim (32:58.35)
The question, right? So the question just is, is it possible that you could set that belief aside, right? And work with a different belief. And that's, you know, but you have to, you have to be willing to ask the question, all right, why am I feeling this way? What belief, you you used it in the business context of like,

Katie Krimitsos (33:10.823)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (33:27.968)
I'm plateaued, things aren't working. 99 times out of 100, the problem is you. entrepreneurs don't, right? Entrepreneurs don't want to hear that. It's not your customers, it's not your employees, it's not the marketplace, it's you that is the problem. And I'm not saying that there aren't contributing factors. There most definitely are.

Katie Krimitsos (33:36.957)
Mm hmm. 100 % 100 % Yep. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Christian Brim (33:57.218)
But the only thing you can change is you and more than likely when you change yourself, the situation around you changes. And that's what doing the work means. And most people are not willing to do that.

Katie Krimitsos (34:08.957)
100%.

Katie Krimitsos (34:12.989)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (34:19.207)
Which is why I am here singing from the mountaintops to anyone to spend the time in stillness to meditate. And it doesn't need to look like what it looks like out there. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (34:28.173)
Okay, so let.

Christian Brim (34:33.186)
Yeah, okay, we're gonna dive into this next, because I'm not a meditation person. And it's not that I don't believe in it. It's that I don't know what the disorder is. I don't sit still well, right?

Katie Krimitsos (34:38.042)
It's okay.

Katie Krimitsos (34:52.153)
You're same as my husband. But I'm going to make a guess by the end of this conversation, you're going to realize that you actually do meditate. It just looks very different. Yeah.

Christian Brim (34:58.614)
Okay, so that's my initial question and then there's how would you define meditation?

Katie Krimitsos (35:03.319)
very broadly, which there are absolutely other, you know, folks who are experts in meditation who would disagree with me on this, but I come to meditation not as a schooled academic meditator, got like expert. come to it as a practitioner for how do we use this tool in reality, right? How do we use it in our, in our world to help us guide us through our lives? And so, so my definition is very simple. is.

A pause. It is a pause from the constant motion of your mind and the constant motion of your energy and the constant motion of your thoughts. That's it. And so when you define meditation like that, can meditation be you sitting in a lotus position for an hour with incense burning? Absolutely. But can meditation also be like it is for me lately?

Christian Brim (35:34.168)
Hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (36:00.965)
just sitting with my coffee mug in my hand and you know right when I wake up and I'm just sitting there on the couch with my eyes closed with no particular goal in mind. Sometimes I'm nodding off. I'm not going to lie. But I'm just there not doing anything. I'm not doing I'm being. Can meditation look like you going out on a walk in nature and just being around the trees and feet in the grass. Absolutely. Can it look like five deep breaths that you take before you pick up your kids.

Christian Brim (36:19.534)
Hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (36:29.917)
so that you can sort of transition from, you work person to parent. Can it be just kind of going on a walk with yourself? know, at the end of the day, really is just for me, it is you creating intentional space for stillness and you creating intentional and you come across as a very, very self-aware person.

And I tend to believe that people who are very self-aware somehow, someway are finding space for stillness, no matter how much they... Because my husband's the same way. He's... He would tell you he doesn't meditate. He absolutely doesn't meditate in a traditional sense, but he is out in nature quite a bit. He walks in nature. He's, you know, he's oftentimes like talking to friends and he talks life out with friends. You know...

Christian Brim (37:15.884)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (37:22.477)
Mm-hmm.

Katie Krimitsos (37:24.387)
Some may really argue with me, but I think that part of that is very meditative in that like you're sort of like there, right? But it's more so about being by yourself, allowing yourself that space to just be still, to not do, to not achieve. And when we do that, it opens this space between exactly what you just said, all those thoughts in our head, all of those things, it sort of creates this space, the emotions, the thoughts, the beliefs, like...

we start seeing the separation between us as a soul and these things that are sort of constantly moving. And when we see that space, when we see that we're different from that, we can now make better choices that are more aligned with who we are and what we really want. So, yeah, so I believe so much in the power of this tool of meditation, no matter how it looks.

because it gives us a portal into us, into our true nature, into our true selves.

Christian Brim (38:21.526)
Yeah, and I think I think of meditative type activities and some of them, you know, I actually do enjoy, I do enjoy that stillness when I get there, but I resist getting there. Right. And I think maybe that's what tools like you provide help facilitate that.

Katie Krimitsos (38:40.985)
Everyone does. Everyone does. Yes, we all do.

Christian Brim (38:52.745)
I am curious, since you're a woman, because I don't I mean, I do get a lot of women on this show. But, you know, statistically speaking, it's a male slant slanted occupation. And I'm always curious about the female perspective on it, because I fundamentally believe we think differently and approach things differently. What from your perspective?

Because like meditation, introspection, those seem to be easier for me, my perspective, like women tend to gravitate to that more than men. you, would you agree with that statement or set me straight if I'm wrong?

Katie Krimitsos (39:40.53)
Hmm. I don't I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that, actually. I I don't know the answer. I don't know statistics about that stuff. I can tell you that like, you know, who's buying the most like journals and journal prompt type type of books to help them, you know, get to know themselves better. I think women are consume that more. You know, obviously, I have a large audience of women who are listening to my show. It's obviously geared at women, but I'm.

I think we do it differently. I think we do it very differently. That's the thing. You know, women typically, this is so very, very generalized, but typically, we'll generalize right now. Typically, we're a lot more free to be able to connect with our emotions, talk about our emotions, share our emotions and vulnerabilities. We tend to be able to have a setup that allows that to happen more often.

Christian Brim (40:13.954)
Hmm. Okay.

Christian Brim (40:20.066)
That's fine. gonna we're gonna yes, we're gonna be yes, we're gonna generalize.

Katie Krimitsos (40:41.083)
where men typically are not granted that as much. And so, you know, I feel like there's still this like stoic, got it together, male figurehead that is sort of what a man should be that is sort of overseeing that. you know, there's there's so much in those genera-generalities.

Christian Brim (41:05.144)
So you're ascribing those differences to more cultural things than innate things.

Katie Krimitsos (41:11.901)
I I don't know. I think we're all unique. I think all of us are so unique. I think that we all lean towards, yeah, we're all sort of, we all come into like these cultural bubbles of man and woman, right? And what rules there are there, what scripts that there are there. yeah, I don't know if I have an answer for you there. Yeah.

Christian Brim (41:16.238)
sure.

Christian Brim (41:39.256)
Okay, that's fine. I had to ask. I think that...

Katie Krimitsos (41:41.884)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (41:47.126)
I think women, and I've said this, I don't think I've said this on the show, but I've said it many times in my life. I believe that...

The feminine is the penultimate creation. feel like that they are, it is more in tune with the divine than the male. I...

I don't know why God made it that way, but I feel like that's the case and that's been my experience. What would you say to that statement?

Katie Krimitsos (42:39.229)
I mean, I love that. That sounds really special and pretty. And yeah, I could see that. But then I don't know. I know incredibly deep men in my life who are very divinely connected. And I don't know. I hate putting generalities on anything, as you could tell. I really back away from that. I think we all do it little differently. I feel like, I think both culturally and sort of naturally,

Are we as women a lot more deeply connected to divine and creation maybe? Yeah, it seems that way. That's sort of the lens with which we could see it through, but I don't know.

Christian Brim (43:23.81)
Well, I I think I think whether you're a mother or not, I think the fact that you have the capacity to create another human gives you this perspective and element like, you know, I, love my children dearly. I'm never going to have the connection that my wife does, because they didn't grow inside of me. Like I, you know, it doesn't discount any of my love, but like, it's just something I don't have.

Katie Krimitsos (43:42.79)
Hmm.

Mm.

Katie Krimitsos (43:50.246)
Right, right, right.

Christian Brim (43:53.71)
And, you know, I think.

I think that you're right. Men.

Christian Brim (44:08.27)
I think it's it's mostly cultural, but maybe there's some innate that they the the stoicism, the lack of emotion is what what is expected. And and, you know, I think it serves a purpose that stoicism that lack of emotion is important to survive.

in this world and there's a place for it. And so I think that to your point, like, I kind of in the opinion that we all, all humans can, and this is not a

gender statement a sexuality statement, I think we have elements of masculine and feminine and contained in each of us like I don't So it is a continuum. It's not even a continuum. It's a hodgepodge. Like, you know your your point. We're all all unique As a matter of fact, one of my employees at one point called me a lesbian and a trapped in a man's body so I mean I get that but this this

Katie Krimitsos (44:57.841)
Yes, I agree with you. Yeah.

Christian Brim (45:19.31)
ability to more easily connect with that deeper purpose seems to be innate in women more than men or just in that feminine energy, if you will. How does that translate to entrepreneurship? Like, how do you see your journey being different than your male colleagues?

Katie Krimitsos (45:50.874)
The first thing that comes to my mind, and this has been a journey, so I'm not here to say that I've done it perfectly the whole way, but I lead my business with intuition. Like I, it is, I am mapping out data. I look at data, but to make decisions, to know where I'm going, to be clear about the big decisions and the small decisions, I am constantly tapping into intuition.

constantly. I I set up my schedule so that I have time to do that. To sit and meditate on, hey, I'm doing this reorg, like, I'm open. What should that look like? You know, I take myself away on solo retreats, quarterly, two, three, four times a year, so that I could be away. And it's, these are not like get stuff done retreats. These are, I'm sitting to sort of

make sure I can hear where I'm supposed to go in life and in business. For me to be really like to have completely taken that on is relatively new, I would say in the past year for me to be aware of like, intuition is leading this business. It is leading this mission, right? But I've always done that. I can see the through line in all of it. So I would say that's it. But.

I don't know if that makes me different than my male colleagues. I just know that that's been the truth for me. And maybe it's different than other people in general, other entrepreneurs in general, male or female. But it's this is different than just like, that gut feeling like it's, no, I'm like, really, really letting this take the wheel. And I'm going to take in all the data and then I'm going to make a decision based on what what my knowing says, knowing that I could.

Christian Brim (47:31.918)
Mmm.

Katie Krimitsos (47:46.839)
mess up quote unquote, but that there was a purpose for that decision. You know what I mean?

Christian Brim (47:54.988)
Yeah, I yes and and I think that's that's an interesting walk because entrepreneurs that are visionary the flip side of vision is a lack of current awareness. Like if you're if you're looking at how things could be should be you want them to be I think it's easy to ignore what's going on.

in reality right now. I think it's also, you know, it is like, you can't wish something into existence, right? I mean, there's a difference between wanting it to happen and being able to make it happen. And for me, the struggle has been when everything, like, is telling the data, the data is telling you that

this is not what you want, like what you're envisioning, right? But being able to say, yeah, but I still am on the right path. Like I know that this is the right path. It doesn't look good now, but I know we're on the right path. And that's hard, because am I being delusional? I don't know, maybe I am.

Katie Krimitsos (49:19.835)
Maybe this is the conversation of operationalizing your intuition as guidance, you know, because there is a real, there's real work to be done in like, here's the vision, but like, what's the how-to of actually how to make that happen? And, you know, where does that show up? It shows up where, for example, in a team reorganization, in a company reorganization, like, who do you lean into? Who do you lean away from? And,

you know, who do you give more work to? Who do you take work away from? Like, how do you, how do you place people? You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's real work that needs to be done in doing that and real numbers that need to be crunched and real data that needs to get sorted to, to, to help intuition make a 360 degree decision. But at the end of the day, it's like the gut that's leading me like, okay, that could look like a really smart move.

But man, there's something telling me like this giant no and I can't, I have learned way, I've learned the hard way over and over again. But I have to say yes to the intuition. I have to say yes. I have to. Even when I don't understand it, I have to.

Christian Brim (50:30.632)
love that. Katie, how do people hear your podcast and your net

Katie Krimitsos (50:36.335)
Yeah, so whatever podcast player you're listening to this on, just search for Women's Meditation Network and you will see all of our 20 shows there. Meditation for Women is our original that gives you a little bit of everything, but we have sleep meditation for women, meditation for anxiety. Like you need to meditate, we got you covered. Or you could go to womensmeditationnetwork.com.

Christian Brim (50:57.746)
as a lesbian trapped in a man's body and can I listen to these podcasts? Is that okay? Okay. Okay, just to clarify listeners, if you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. Until next time. Remember, you are not alone.

Katie Krimitsos (51:02.826)
Anyone is welcome. Anyone is welcome to listen. Yes.