The Joyful Rebellion: James Walters

Summary

In this episode of The Chris Project, host Christian Brim interviews James Walters, a creative individual who has navigated various roles in life, including photographer, father, entrepreneur, and podcast host. James shares his journey of self-discovery, the concept of 'Joyful Rebellion,' and the importance of awareness in overcoming personal challenges. He discusses the impact of loss and grief on his life, the role of therapy in his growth, and how he learned to create his own narrative. The conversation delves into the entrepreneurial mindset and the significance of intent in pursuing one's passions. 

In this conversation, Christian Brim and James Walters explore the journey of rediscovering passion and intent in entrepreneurship, the emotional connections between business and family, and the importance of joy and insight in relationships. They discuss the challenges of maintaining emotional intimacy in personal relationships while navigating the demands of entrepreneurship, and the identity shifts that come with evolving roles in business. The dialogue emphasizes the need for intentionality in both personal and professional growth, and the satisfaction that comes from helping others find their own insights.

Takeaways

• James identifies as a creative person above all.
• Labels can be limiting and slippery in defining identity.
• The Joyful Rebellion podcast explores the search for joy beyond success.
• Awareness is the first step towards positive change.
• Loss and grief can profoundly impact personal and professional life.
• Therapy can provide valuable insights and support for personal growth.
• Creating your own narrative is essential for fulfillment.
• Intent is crucial in entrepreneurship and personal projects.
• Entrepreneurs often face unique psychological challenges.
• Finding joy in work requires intentionality and creativity. Rediscovering passion is essential for business success.
• Intentionality is key to overcoming autopilot behavior.
• Entrepreneurs often identify closely with their work.
• Life has seasons that affect our creativity and energy.
• Finding joy in helping others can be fulfilling.
• Emotional intimacy is crucial in personal relationships.
• Business can feel like an extension of ourselves.
• Navigating identity shifts is part of entrepreneurial growth.
• Creativity can manifest in various forms beyond the primary business.
• Intentional connections lead to deeper relationships.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.197)
Welcome to another episode of The Chris Project. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is James Walters. James, welcome.

James Walters (00:11.278)
Thank you, Christian. It's great to be here.

Christian Brim (00:13.465)
Well, I'm glad you made it up this morning. tell us who James Walters is and what's his story? How'd he get here?

James Walters (00:22.932)
yeah. like so many people in the world, I've kind of describe and other people describe me with different titles and those titles only apply to how they work into my life or how I work into their life. so I guess if we go, yeah.

Christian Brim (00:42.969)
Well, how, what title would you give yourself?

James Walters (00:47.611)
I'd say the dominant title is a creative person.

Christian Brim (00:53.775)
Okay, I like that.

James Walters (00:55.544)
That's the one that fits the most and it kind of rides across all of the different titles. But the father comes into play, but before that, a photographer, that's how I started my career. And that's how I identified myself for a very long time, a creative person, but also a photographer. And that, we'll talk about it later, but that caused some.

Christian Brim (01:01.849)
Yes?

Christian Brim (01:15.747)
Yes.

James Walters (01:23.278)
problems, some issues as an entrepreneur. And so I was photographer, then father, then an entrepreneur, then, at that time, a husband and a business partner. And then those things fell away. And again, the identity situation. So I've learned that title, giving yourself

titles or labels can be a little slippery sometimes because sometimes you want to live into those and it doesn't quite happen. But now I guess I could give myself the title podcast host because about two and it was two years ago this month, I started a passion project of my own. Very much you describe your podcast as that and mine's called the Joyful Rebellion. It's about that time.

people's life when they've done all the things that their family, society, and even they told themselves would give them the success that would make them happy. And they get to that point where they've worked hard and they've checked all the boxes and they look around and they say, you know, I've got the success. I don't have the joy. I don't have the happiness. And what I've found in talking to

dozens and almost hundreds of people at this point is that sometimes the rebellion part is to rebel against what you've always known, what you've always done. And sometimes that's family programming. Sometimes that's your own family dynamic. It's your old habits. It's all of those things. And we just went really deep, but that's a...

Christian Brim (03:03.619)
Yes.

James Walters (03:18.669)
There has been a lot of things along the way that's gotten me where I am right now and wanting to give back to other people so that they can experience more joy in their life without having to go through the bumps.

Christian Brim (03:32.353)
Yeah, you mentioned labels. I think it's interesting the way our brain works. I think we like to use labels. I think our brain naturally uses labels because it helps us navigate. It's easier to categorize things in our brain. I think in a way it filters information that otherwise would overwhelm us.

James Walters (04:01.357)
Well, that's true.

Christian Brim (04:02.03)
So there's a purpose behind it, but it definitely is a limitation. I think back now that I'm almost 55, and I still do this to certain extent, but when you see people, you classify them by age in your head. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't...

James Walters (04:26.142)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (04:31.246)
Like if my younger self would look at myself as that's an old man But then I'm like well that doesn't really fit that doesn't feel right to me because I don't you know and But then I'll look at someone that's older than I am so well, that's an older person, you know, but but it's just it's fascinating that that We we put these labels on things and put labels on ourselves

people put labels on us. One of the things you know, I'm a CPA by vocation. And for for decade or more, people asked me what I do. And my answer is as little as possible, because I don't want to tell them that, you know, that's the standard answer is like your vocation, right?

James Walters (05:12.045)
Ha

James Walters (05:19.681)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (05:20.078)
But then they've got all these preconceived ideas about it was CPA is or what they should do or how they should act and I'm like I don't I don't want that I don't want that baggage. So I just don't Which is weird. I don't know sorry Let me let let me ask you so so the joyful rebellion It that kind of makes me think that there was at some point in your life. You didn't have joy

James Walters (05:29.932)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (05:34.689)
Nah, I get it. I get it.

James Walters (05:49.401)
yes, very much.

Christian Brim (05:50.243)
Well, let's let's dive into that. What were the circumstances around the the what was the origin story of the joyful rebellion? Like what what what was your experience that caused you to want to create that podcast?

James Walters (05:53.184)
Okay.

James Walters (05:59.543)
Yeah.

James Walters (06:08.469)
Yeah, I like a lot of people who push hard and are really into what they do. And that's that's what we identify with. If we're entrepreneurs, we kind of love building something. And I spent my 20s building my career, my creative career, my photography career. And I was in that world. I was so immersed in it. And I to the point where I was working not to avoid things.

but I was working because I was getting so much growth from it and I was excited about it. But everything has a trade off, right? So I was putting so much time and effort into that part of my life that family relationships were falling away. I wasn't going to people's weddings because I was booked for photo shoots and it's not like I was like they told me, hey, we're getting married. And then I booked a photo shoot and said, hey, this is more important. It's like I had a

a photo shoot already booked before they even got engaged. And it was one of those things where I'm like, hey, I got this previous commitment. So I miss weddings. I miss funerals. I miss a lot of stuff. And then I had started a family of my own and was still pushing, still, you know, doing the grind, as I called it. And this was around this right around 2008 when things were starting to look a little dicey.

Christian Brim (07:11.245)
Right.

James Walters (07:37.638)
in the world, the economy-wise. And that was also the year that my... had a brother, so I'm the oldest of five siblings, and... okay, okay. It's a rare privilege, question mark? Question mark. But the first of my siblings died of a drug overdose that year in January.

Christian Brim (07:39.746)
Yes, yes.

Christian Brim (07:50.552)
So am I. Weird.

Christian Brim (07:58.095)
Yes. Yes.

James Walters (08:08.021)
and my wife at the time was pregnant with our second child. It wasn't, so that was in January. It wasn't long after that. It was actually in the middle of March that one of my favorite people, my paternal grandmother, she passed.

Christian Brim (08:25.166)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (08:27.245)
And it was, this is gonna start sounding like a country song in a minute, but it doesn't get better. Spoiler alert. So the economy's going down. My wife and I own our own business. We've got a baby on the way. We've already got a five-year-old at home. And I'm freaking out.

a little bit. I'm like, okay, all this... And then there's all this drama with the, you know, a lot of heaviness with the deaths that have happened so far. So then July comes around and we have a healthy baby girl. That's great. And while we're in the hospital, my wife's grandfather dies and we get that call. As soon as we get home about two days later, I realize that

Christian Brim (08:55.264)
Understood.

James Walters (09:22.303)
our dog of 12 years, totally not recoverable at that point. So I take the trip to the vet to get the dog put to sleep. It was just a series of these for about three or four years. The next year, my other grandmother died. Not, not wildly, like a shock because they weren't young people who had a heart attack, but they were

Christian Brim (09:47.683)
Right.

James Walters (09:51.01)
They were a little young for their time, given what could have been. It wasn't long after that, my I was still grinding hard, but this time at this point, I'm grinding at work to get away from all the feelings of all this anxiety. I'm not doing it because I love it anymore. All right. Big difference. So now all this stress, all these things, I instead of this joyful work towards something I felt was

Christian Brim (10:05.164)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (10:09.197)
Right.

James Walters (10:20.621)
giving me growth, it was being robotic and just getting through whatever the next disaster was going to be and trying to keep things afloat. So fast forward to about 2011, I was scheduled for another photo shoot as a magazine shoot. We were going to start at seven o'clock that

Christian Brim (10:36.568)
Right.

James Walters (10:46.281)
on the morning and the morning or the night before I got the call that my mother had taken her life and she was states away. So it's not like I could go see and that had happened. And I walked into the photo shoot the next morning, did the photo shoot. No one knew a thing except my wife who was there with me kind of playing interference. And I got through that and

That's when I realized, dude, something's gotta give. Like you, you can't just keep soldiering through all this crazy stuff and expect the future to be anything better than what the past has been. So that was, that was the beginning of my wake up call. It certainly wasn't my wake up call, but it was the beginning of awareness and of

Christian Brim (11:26.115)
Right.

James Walters (11:41.838)
I've discovered with my podcast and it sounds like you talk about it a lot with yours, awareness is everything. Awareness is where everything starts. And it's impossible to do anything positive or otherwise until you've got that awareness. So that was part of mine.

Christian Brim (11:49.857)
Yes.

Christian Brim (11:59.779)
Well, would you mind continuing? Like I'd like to hear the rest of the story.

James Walters (12:02.891)
Yeah. OK, OK. So.

They're, of course, when people die and your family, one of two things I've experienced can happen. have great, know, everyone gathers around and they're a great memory shared, or everyone gathers around to fight over what is left, that that person left the world, right? The second one's what happened in my family.

And being the oldest of now four kids, the other three were ready to see what was coming to them.

Christian Brim (12:47.758)
Now was your father already out of the picture? Had he died?

James Walters (12:51.701)
He was actually my, so my mom got married super young, like 18 and then had me a year later and then was separated a year later. I did have, she did get remarried four years later, but, my stepfather was kind of out of that part of the family picture at that point. So they had been divorced for a long time. So yeah, I wasn't, there for that, but.

And to make matters even worse, my grandmother, who died in 2009, she did one of those crazy, like, proper things where she was in the hospital, she was in intensive care. They said, okay, we're going to give you some rehabilitation. She was like, I don't want it. I'm not leaving here. So it was kind of her choice to stay there. But at the same time, she asked me to call her attorney, her estate attorney.

who came in, I left, and she changed everything. She changed all this stuff. All of a sudden I found instead of my mom, it was me who was co-executor with her sibling. All of my other siblings were written out of her will. And I come back and I'm like, da, da, da, you know. Okay, when we getting out of here, grandma, and she's like,

No, and she didn't tell me what she did until after she was gone and I found out. And I was like, okay. That's like, hey, cool. And now everybody's looking at me like, what's going on? What'd you do? What'd you tell her to do? I like, I left. I literally the day that this is this kind of a really bad pattern. But the day that she died in the hospital, I was

Christian Brim (14:29.806)
That's not generally a good plan, but...

James Walters (14:52.525)
at a photo shoot a few hours away and I get a text from my sister. So it was it was that pattern, but also all of the drama that was going on. And I was just kind of getting through the drama, getting through all the things again, becoming more of that robotic person that didn't help my marital relationship. So that started to crumble, but I didn't see it until it was a little too far gone.

Christian Brim (15:21.198)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (15:21.293)
And so now we're fast forwarding up to like 2013, 2014 and things are starting to feel normal again until the whiplash of, Oh, marriage is over. didn't realize it, but Hey, that's, that's what had happened. And that was on that. That was partly on me because I just, again, trade-offs. If you put all of your energy and attention into one thing, you got to take it away from a lot of other stuff.

And so there were consequences for that and there's collateral damage. And so started that, that started me down the road of talking to someone else besides my own internal voice. I went to a therapist, started talking about a lot of the things that were going on and I'll never forget. was 40 at that point and she looked at me one day and she's like, have you ever considered you, you might have ADD. And I was like, no, cause that's fake.

What are you talking about? It's like something my brothers had so they could get out of, you know, getting in trouble for being rambunctious and such. She's like, no, actually, you might want to check into it. You might want to do a little research for yourself. And because everything you just described to me are the symptoms of it. I was like, well, that's interesting. And she said, well, what kind of calendar system do you have? What the heck is that? Like, I just remember everything. I remember where I need to be or remember what I need to do. And I just do it.

you might want to check into a calendar. I was like, I'm here now. I didn't miss our appointment. I'm never late. And so she started me down the path of a little more self discovery. And that was quite a while ago. But fast forward to, I don't know, guess maybe five, six years ago, everything's cruising along and

sticking with the therapy, sticking with talking to people about what's going on in my situation. I start thinking, wow, I am at the point in my career where I'm a little bored and I feel stale and I need to do something else just to keep me interested. And so then there became kind of that divide in my life where there's the work I do to make sure the bills get paid.

Christian Brim (17:43.128)
Yes.

James Walters (17:44.054)
And then there's the work I do because I'm really passionate about it, but no one's handing out dollar bills for it. I kind of like the podcast. So I started getting into writing books. came out. It took me seven years to write this book, but I just finished it. And well, it came out in November, but it's coffee table book. And it is the only book I've ever written that's got pictures in it.

But all the pictures, like in my working life, I take pictures of people. That's what I do. This book has no people pictures in it. And there's no, well, I mean, if someone thinks it's interesting, it's got some commercial value, maybe. It's kind of cool looking. But at the same time, I did it for me. And I did it to really reflect on my life a little bit, but also flex my creative muscle as much as I could because I've never...

I had never done a project like this before. So that takes us up to now where now I'm really into having people be the author of their own story. And what I mean by that is I realized I spent my my 20s, most of my 30s, not really watching movies because they were a distraction to work. And I was more interested in doing what I was creating.

Christian Brim (19:03.629)
Right?

James Walters (19:08.353)
But then when I got in my forties and I was like, man, I need to slow down, I started watching movies. And then I realized, you every single movie that you watch begins with a script and then they plan it out and then they plan the visuals and then, you know, it comes to fruition and the editing and then you watch it and you enjoy it. And so I thought, what if I just start writing the script for my movie, the movie of my life? What if I, instead of just going along,

Christian Brim (19:19.03)
Yes.

James Walters (19:37.676)
with every day and, I'm waking up. Let's see what the day holds. I plan it out a little more carefully, but not not just carefully, like whimsically, like I can build in as much creativity as I want. I can do stupid stuff, but let's be intentional about it and let's mean to do stupid stuff. And then, you know, just make sure we got some some money.

Christian Brim (19:54.008)
Right? Yes? Yes?

James Walters (20:04.747)
banked for whatever medical bill that's going to be and call it good. So that's what got me really passionate about other. And I've heard so many other people have the same lament in my life, like, I wish this or, I would love to whatever thing it was I was doing at the time that maybe they thought was cool. I would love to have a podcast. I just don't know anything about it. And I was like, I didn't either until I sat down with my eye.

iPad and a whole lot of YouTube and we worked it out. So stuff like that. And now I'm just loving it because I'm able to throw myself into my work, but I'm a lot happier with my work because it's the work I want to be doing.

Christian Brim (20:38.274)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (20:53.646)
You talked about intent, intent. And I think that's uber important. I think as entrepreneurs, you know, we're mentally wired differently. I think, well, what actually was the impetus for this podcast?

beyond the origin story, had a colleague that exited from his business in his 40s for like nine figures. And he literally became depressed because he didn't know what to do with his life. And he decided to go back to get his doctorate in psychology. And

James Walters (21:37.069)
Hmm.

James Walters (21:48.289)
Nice.

Christian Brim (21:50.191)
He he told me there were like hundreds of studies around entrepreneurs in the psychology Field and I'm like that's interesting because I've as an as an entrepreneur. I've never heard of them like, you know But you know, there's there's a lot around the entrepreneur mind That that is unknown and unstudied, but I think there's a distinct

There's this distinct collective of characteristics that that make up an entrepreneur that sees things as they could be sees the potential and and you know When you talk about intent, I think a lot of entrepreneurs start out with an intent they see a problem They're trying to solve or they see an opportunity they you know that this creation but then that creation

you know, kind of like Frankenstein comes and becomes the monster and and and takes takes over and the intent goes away. Right. So for me, that happened, you know, I, I always I won't I won't go through my story because I've shared it a lot on the show. But, know, essentially, I knew I wanted to help people. I wanted to help small business owners with their finances.

But along the way, I lost that fire much like you. To the point my brother was my partner and this is probably 10 years ago. That's another thing with age. Everything's 10 years ago, though, yeah, right. 10 years ago, right? Yeah. So although I really think this was about 10 years ago. Anyway, I told my brother, I said, you're in charge. I'm leaving. I can't stand this anymore.

James Walters (23:34.271)
Everything. The 90s was solid 10 years ago. Yeah.

Christian Brim (23:48.111)
and I went and started a software company and For two years. I'm in the wilderness and when I came back I I had to do the work on myself It was forced on me I did not want to do it but the company had gotten to the point where it needed me to come back in after two years and so My only statement was I don't know

what we're going to do, but we're not going to do it the way we used to do it. And that forced me to do a lot of self work to realize why the business was just a reflection of me and the problems in the business were the problems with me. Not that there weren't other things that affected the business or people that affected the business, you know, my brother, for instance. mean, but fundamentally,

James Walters (24:19.916)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (24:46.398)
If if something was going to be different, it had to start with me. And, you know, I realized that for, you know, 15 years, I'd been on autopilot. I had been about like growing the business and why I, I don't know, cause that's just what you're supposed to do. Right. Like, but all of it went back to I'd lost the passion and the intent, you know, and

James Walters (25:03.373)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (25:15.886)
I thought it was gone. I thought there was no way that I could come back into this business and enjoy it. Um, but over the course of the change of myself and my growth, um, my passion came back and you know, I, I, all of that to say, you know, I really resonate with what you're saying with intent because if you're not intentional, our brain is

very, very good at running on its programming. And most of it is subconscious. You know, beliefs, habits, feelings that never rise to the level of consciousness. And it's very easy to just run on that track and not be intentional. It takes effort to say, you know, this, this is this is what I'm pursuing, just like you did when you started, right? I don't know.

James Walters (26:11.019)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And it's easy to get in that a lot of people call it the rut, your well-worn path that it's worked in the past. And that's the thing in entrepreneurship, as entrepreneurs, we tend to identify a little more with our work than somebody who works for a company. they have a title, but they maybe don't.

Christian Brim (26:19.159)
Yes.

James Walters (26:44.695)
take that home with them quite as much as an entrepreneur would.

Christian Brim (26:47.052)
No, no, no, we call that the difference, and this is an archaic analogy, but it's the difference between signing the front of the check and signing the back of the check. Is the entrepreneur versus the employee? And it's a completely different thing.

James Walters (27:00.354)
Yeah.

James Walters (27:05.581)
Totally different mentality. But what I found in my journey is that even as an entrepreneur, when you are in the business, you are the business in some cases. Your life, just the natural progression of our lives, we have seasons of our life. We have those seasons where we are full of that energy and we're full of that creativity. And then we have seasons where we are responsible for other little humans sometimes. And we've got to figure out

Christian Brim (27:32.194)
Yes.

James Walters (27:35.604)
how that fits in to the mix. And then we've got the season when those little humans aren't so little anymore and then they go away and then we're like, okay, now what do I want to do? I feel like I have some free time. I feel like I have a whole lot more money now because I don't have people asking for it constantly. Not the kids anyway. And then you got to figure out like what now. And so I'm kind of on the beginning of that.

journey in my life. like you mentioned about growth and growing a company, because that's what we've been told. And that's what the news glamorizes is growing the company and everything getting bigger and scaling. And everyone's talking about scaling on social media. And there comes a point you're like, no, I'm good. I want to keep things like they are. And I want to be able to go do some other cool creative projects that aren't side hustles.

they're growth oriented and a little bit for me, also maybe just for the world too.

Christian Brim (28:43.734)
Yes, yes, I want to pivot a second and go back to joy.

what, what brings you joy?

James Walters (28:57.825)
brings me joy is seeing the light bulb go off over someone's head when we're having a discussion. This happened to me with one of my fairly close friends. She's been married for about five years now. And I knew her like four years before she got married, I guess. And she had been through a pretty nasty

divorce situation and everything before that. I kind of knew her when that was going on. So I heard a lot of stories and the backstory and the relationship dynamics. then, you know, she meets a guy, gets married, they're having a great relationship, but she was recounting a story of something that happened that he just didn't understand, like why she was behaving a certain way. She wanted to go to the store, but instead of saying it, they were

They were getting ready to turn left. The store was on the right. And she was like, do we need anything at the store? And he's like, I don't think so. I don't need anything at the store. Do you need to go to the store? And she's like, well, just don't know if we have everything for tomorrow's dinner or whatever. What she really wanted to do was go to the store and get some wine for that night. But she didn't want to come out right out and express her need. And he called her out on it and said, hey, look, if you

If you want to go to the store, just let me know. We can go to the store. They had already turned left. They were away from the store and he kind of sensed her not being super happy about it. So that's why he wanted to bring it up. Very healthy thing to do, right? And she was like, yeah, I just couldn't give them an answer. didn't know what the answer was. And I was like, do you want to know what the answer is? Because I know you well enough, but you haven't come to this awareness yet. I said, you spent many, many years with a person, with people, and even

of your parental unit, as I've heard it described, you had to make sure it was their idea to get your needs met. Otherwise, your needs wouldn't get met. And she's like, And so that light bulb moment brings me joy. And as I've discovered, because I've always been the lone wolf kind of archetype, doing my own thing, I've never really delegated much, I'm working on that.

Christian Brim (31:02.936)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (31:22.933)
as much as I can. But also some of the collateral damage with that was not really being connected with people on a deeper level than just acquaintances or work relationships. And so when I was able to give her that insight to herself because I had been intentional about creating a friend connection over a period of time, it was like, okay, that's cool. That was really

nice to be able to have someone else see that payoff as well as myself. So that brings me joy.

Christian Brim (32:00.217)
Did you have emotional intimacy with your wife?

James Walters (32:08.941)
I wonder about that. And I don't know that I did because here's the thing. We met when we were 12 years old out on the playground. We didn't like each other then because that was gross, right? Yeah. So a few years later, junior high, high school, we dated and we dated off and on. And then we broke up when we went to college because it's a whole new world and all that good stuff. a couple of years into college, we decided, OK, we just we keep doing this. Let's let's just do it for real.

Christian Brim (32:19.374)
Of course not.

James Walters (32:39.797)
And so we got married when we were 20 and we were we were like a force. We were a great team and we got married so young we didn't really have a whole lot of data points. And this is what I keep going back to. I didn't have a whole lot of data points with all of the the dating dynamics and all that good stuff. So as I look back, I realize and then we were 10 years into our marriage before we went into business together.

And we were really good business partners, which leads me to wonder if we were really good, intimate, know, emotionally intimate partners because we were great at dividing and conquering the work that had to get done, but maybe not so much taking care of each other's emotional needs. And so just in reflection, I'm looking back and asking those questions. And I kind of don't see a whole lot of that.

over the course of that relationship.

Christian Brim (33:42.083)
Well, yeah, I mean, at that age and then with with children, you know, it can I mean, I got married at make sure I get this correct. Twenty three. Yeah, I got married at twenty three and we had our first child at twenty four. And so, you know, my my oldest is going to turn thirty one in a few weeks.

James Walters (33:54.381)
Don't mess this up, Christian.

James Walters (34:01.152)
Okay.

James Walters (34:09.357)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (34:09.806)
And and like she's not married. None of my kids are married and and like at 30 I had three kids. My my oldest is is 30 and You know at that age you just don't you don't know what you don't know And and then you've got all these responsibilities business kids, you know it's easy to Not have those

James Walters (34:26.477)
Mm.

Christian Brim (34:39.406)
emotional connections. I know, like with my wife, it wasn't until we had no kids at home, pandemic, family sickness, my wife had cancer, her sister died, her mother died, I mean, it all happened concentrated and we didn't have a choice.

James Walters (35:02.198)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (35:08.494)
but to deal with the lack of intimacy in our relationship. And, you know, I'm sitting there thinking to myself, how the hell did we get to this point? But it's relatively easy if you're not intentional about it, you know, because you're busy, you're busy. And it's not that that busy is bad. I mean, you know, raising kids was a hell of a lot of fun, but you know, it...

James Walters (35:13.334)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (35:25.697)
Yeah. yeah.

James Walters (35:36.151)
you

Christian Brim (35:37.807)
You know, I want to pivot back to something else. One of the studies that my colleague gave me was one that I've talked about on this show, but I want your input on it. They took, I think, 25 male entrepreneurs and they did MRI scans on their brains and they showed them pictures of their children.

James Walters (35:44.096)
Okay?

Christian Brim (36:04.546)
And then, you know, they were showing him pictures of a variety of things, but then they showed them pictures of, of their business. And the same part of the brain that lit up for the business was the same part of their brain that lit up for their children. And, you know, it gives a little more depth to that statement of, it's my baby.

And I also want to point out there were no females in this study because I don't think their brains are wired the same. But for men entrepreneurs, and I think you might have some interesting insight into this, the business is an extension of ourselves emotionally and psychologically just like our kids are.

James Walters (36:41.101)
That's interesting.

James Walters (37:00.908)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (37:02.371)
What do you say to that?

James Walters (37:04.653)
I would have to agree very much. And I also think it comes back to just that sense of creation and creativity and our ability to take something that wasn't there previously. And because of our effort, because of our nurturing and because of our problem solving, a lot of entrepreneurs get so much satisfaction out of problem solving.

Christian Brim (37:15.298)
Yes.

Christian Brim (37:34.616)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (37:35.022)
And they just love that part. And sometimes we call problem solving creativity and it's an endless opportunity for that every single day, just like raising your children because it's like, yeah, you take responsibility for their successes. And when they have failures, you're like, you want to help it along just like in your own business. And it's like what you

Christian Brim (37:44.963)
Yes.

James Walters (38:02.945)
really came to realize when you went back into your business with your brother, you were like, if I'm going to do this, it's going to be different. It's going to reflect who you were then. So it's almost like you're creating a whole new kid, right?

Christian Brim (38:19.598)
It is and what's strange about that, you know, I look back. So I came back into the business like eight years ago and, you know, my brother's gone. He left. I bought him out. Our third partner is gone. I bought him out. there are maybe one or two employees that are here that were here then, but

Everything about the business has changed and and it was I I said that it was hard for me and it's hard with perspective Because so much time has passed but to me that that transition was harder than starting the business and And I can understand where people get to that point and and they're comfortable You know financially

James Walters (39:05.535)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (39:15.69)
emotionally, whatever, that they don't want to take that next step because it's hard. but I think, you know, going back to our, our shows, inspiration, Chris, he had financial success, right? But he didn't have any satisfaction in it. And his, his answer to that was, well, I'll just get somebody to run the business, which isn't a bad answer.

James Walters (39:32.813)
Mm.

Christian Brim (39:45.323)
It really isn't. but he, in a lot of ways rushed the decision. You know, he, should have taken time to find the right person. but, but he was the business in the iteration. was, he was done with it. Like it, you know, we get excited about the problem solving, the, the, the startup, you know, like the, the, initial thing.

James Walters (40:03.757)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (40:13.078)
And then it becomes this thing with a bunch of problems that we don't, you know, aren't equipped to deal with, you know, like, you know, managing people and, you know, it, and, so we're like, well, we don't want to do this and we just lose interest in

James Walters (40:29.399)
Yeah. It's like I always relate it to untangling Christmas lights. Because if you're trying to go quick and get those things down, and then you've got this cluster of these things, you're like, where do I even begin? And that's what it can feel like. I've got a business that's 20 years on now, and I am in the process of trying to not pivot necessarily, but just

Christian Brim (40:35.49)
Yeah, who the hell wants to go buy new ones?

James Walters (40:57.889)
transition it into what it's going to be in my later years so it fits for my life and what I want out of life. So definitely relate.

Christian Brim (41:03.694)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (41:08.504)
Well, and that's, yeah, I mean, that's, that's hard because we don't entrepreneurs in general, aren't patient people. And, and, know, untangling the Christmas lights is not the solution we would go to. Right. mean, and it, yeah, having the discipline to sit down and the patients to sit down and do that is, is, is definitely a challenge, which is why a lot of them.

James Walters (41:19.223)
Yeah.

James Walters (41:26.765)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (41:39.257)
Well, I'm just gonna go start something else. I mean, you I'm gonna go do something else. And maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Maybe untangling those lights isn't worth it. I can't answer that, but understanding your proclivity to say, fuck it and go do something else. I mean, that's our bent.

James Walters (41:41.602)
Mm-hmm.

James Walters (42:01.845)
Yeah. And I've got some friends who are really good at that. I mean, if they even catch a whiff that they're not happy with whatever is going on in the business or how the business plays out in the marketplace, they're moving on. And they're in that constant creation. It's almost like a numbers game for them. But then there are others who really take it very personally. It is their baby. It is like their child.

Those are the ones I relate with a little bit more because I always love making something personal and putting myself into the work. And that's also something I had to really learn because when I was in business with my wife at the time and we were like the husband and wife team, I was a photographer. That's how I would have labeled myself. Well, next thing you know, I'm not part of that team.

anymore. So there's little identity shift that has to happen. Then I get into a type of photography where I'm not actually taking the pictures myself a whole lot. I'm managing a lot of other creative people. And so I had to really work through a little identity shift there at that point. Now I'm training people more than I'm doing. And while that's fun, I love to develop other people's skill sets. It

Christian Brim (43:01.006)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (43:17.656)
Yeah.

James Walters (43:29.175)
felt a little creatively empty because I wasn't producing, which is why then I picked up a book project or I started doing a lot of media stuff for the podcast. And so I can be creative in those ways and still keep my skills sharp, but it's not, that's not what's paying the bills. It's what's keeping me interested in developing other exactly.

Christian Brim (43:32.163)
Yes.

Christian Brim (43:50.102)
Right, feeling that passion. James, I feel like we could talk forever. Unfortunately, we can't. Not at least on this show. I really appreciate your experience share and your vulnerability. I know we don't like to talk about that word, but sharing your story with us. How do folks find out more about you if they want to learn more?

James Walters (43:56.109)
That's right.

James Walters (44:16.779)
Yeah, everything that I do is at my website. It's just my name, jameswalters.com. And everything can be found there.

Christian Brim (44:23.768)
Perfect.

We'll have that link in the show notes listeners. If you like what you've heard, please rate the broadcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and let us know maybe we'll put you on the show. Until then, ta ta for now.